What Happens After Ukraine Gets M1 Abrams and Leopard 2 Tanks?

I agree. Russia must depart Ukraine, and borders secured. Ukranian military made capable of enforcing integrity of borders.

We need to ensure that Europe csan exist without US jumpimg in to save them again. Nato should consist of European nations only, not depend upon American leadership or military aid. Poland is the best example of European country providing security for its own integrity. Other European countries depend on U.S. to keep them safe.

Desired outcome
Ukraine evicting Russian forces from all international recognized Ukrainian territory and establishing a new security framework with meaningful guaranties for Ukraine’s security. A peace treaty with Russia that confirm this.

Acceptable outcome
Any lesser outcome than the desired one that Ukraine itself seeks.

Davis says that the Ukrainians and their allie’s lack a clear plan. Does Russia have a clear plan? It seems to me that their plans such as they are have been a debacle; meanwhile the Ukrainians have managed a successful defense and two successful offensives. Given better weapons it seems completely logical that Ukraine will be able to build off its prior successes while the Russians still seem to be playing the quantity has a quality all its own card. Bakhmut is a Russian Verdun. How long will they continue with the Iranian style human wave attacks.

Q: What are America’s vital national interests as they relate to the Russia-Ukraine war?

A: United States needs to maintain a world wide web of alliances that can constrain China and it vassal state Russia. If United States fails to support Ukraine, when it is so easy to do with surplus western weapons and some logistical support, this would force many countries to question their (potential) alignment with the US. I am talking India, Vietnam, Philippines. This would allow China to inexorably albeit slowly establish control over the shipping lanes in Asia.

Q: What is the desired end state of U.S. support?

A: Ukraine at the minimum cuts the land bridge to Crimea. Even better, back to Feb 2022 lines. After that, collective negotiations with Russia, things on the table being: status of Crimea, lifting of sanctions, free navigation on the Sea of Azov and so on, war crimes trials. It is unrealistic for Ukraine to attack overland Crimea, but realistic to cut the land bridge and impose costs on Russia holding Crimea.

Q: How does the provision of military gear support the desired end state?
A: As it has already; of course training on new gear will take time; in the meantime Ukraine will use modernized T72 tanks from Poland and in the future when they are trained they will use the new tanks. Ukraine has millions of men under arms – can it be that hard to find a few hundred smart ones with experience operating other tanks and/or other heavy military equipment?
Colonel Davis is talking about a long training course for US tankers. Are these kids fresh out of high school? How do they compare with Ukrainian soldiers that have been fighting including with tanks, for years already?

Q: What are the criteria for determining success or failure of the policy to support Ukraine? How will the president know if American actions are working or failing?
A: Minimal success is the preservation of the world order that has brought prosperity to most of the world. Allowing a decaying and bellicose Russia to attack successfully a neighboring country is not success.
American actions are already working as it is obvious to almost everybody.

Q: What is the culmination strategy?
A: When Ukraine reaches Feb 2022 lines. Then the whole Crimea is in range. If Russia keeps up aerial attacks then Ukraine keeps attacking the Russian fleet and other military targets in Crimea.

Delivery in 2024?

The Ukrainian people are willing to fight for their freedom…. The Afghanistan and Iraq people were not willing to fight for their freedom .that’s the big difference in this conflict

Dan Dan Dan, right up with with Colonel doom gloom Macky boy Gregor. End desired state, bleed Russia, bleed them deep, and for every russky troll out there, lesson is do not invade countries for anything that amounts to none other than expanding your territory at the expense of millions for your glorious vision of Russia again dominating the world. In turn for kicking them out, desired end state should be a deep inward reflection by Russia’s own masses, and if they continue to not care- the majority- then so be it, and hence, here’s why there is a NATO. But if Putin is going to use nukes, then he will use them in his next gambit too, which Dan is not going to talk to. I’m waiting for the words of surrender, which will be applied then to Georgia/Moldova and it looks like the Kazakh folk may be next as well. But he’ll have his detente for sure. How bout Ukraine wins, the US also gains a very large customer for its arms- where Biden has failed to realize giving excess arms from stocks that he won’t ever get to the bottom of in the case of the oldest Abrams and F-16’s, which we can modestly upgrade and they will still be better than Russian gear, and hence lead to sales of more modern used Abrams and F-16/18, maybe 35’s. But it gets the strongest of European armies stood up, no US troops now need be involved, and opens up a dialogue with Russia on their own vulnerability and how to solve for that without it resorting to the use of nukes and their demise. And oh, where’s your Chinese pals? Sitting on the sideline, waiting to pour over the border in a red plague taking back Amur Oblast, Primorsky Krai, hell, name it, they can’t be stopped short of nukes either…

It occurred to me there is something else wildly inaccurate in Davis’s article. The US is largely emptying our storage closet for Ukraine. Other than artillery shells and GMLRS rounds… pretty much everything else is in plentiful supply, or things that were arent even using anymore.

Pretending that there is going to be some massive crisis because we are giving Ukraine too much military equipment is patently absurd. As well, The US has given Ukraine zero airplanes so far. The US military doctrine relies a lot more on air support and air support than artillery. Yet still, it’s time to wake up our industrial might ad make more artillery and GMLRS rounds.

The US is about to send:
31 Abrams [we have over 5000]
109 Bradleys [we have over 5000, and these are about to be replaced]
90 Strykers [also have thousands],
300 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers [dont use these anymore],
250 M1117 Armored Security Vehicles [dont use these anymore]
580 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles [dont use these anymore]

None of that going to Ukraine will weaken the US military. In fact I cant think of a better use for our old equipment than for Ukraine to use it all to beat Russia back to the internationally recognized border.

Furthermore, I just read an interview of Phillip Karber, a Marine veteran and national security analyst.

Apparently the Russian made T80 that Ukraine has been operating for quite some time…also has a turbine engine.

Although Abrams tanks are more sophisticated than T80s, Karber said that Ukrainian maintainers who now work on T80BVs could learn how to keep Abrams tanks running fairly quickly. T80BVs are a variant of the tank introduced in 1985.

“My estimate is — and I’ve spent time in three of Ukraine’s tank factories or assembly plants — their technicians could be on top of correcting or fixing just about anything on an M1 with two months of experience,” Karber said.

Karber added that Abrams tanks could be easier for the Ukrainians to drive than their T-80s, and Ukrainian crews could learn how to use the Abrams fire control system with about a month of training.

Spending more time learning NATO style combined arms maneuver as well as getting Ukraine GLSDB…and hopefully some F16s would go a long way to rounding out the other elements Ukraine needs to complement the tanks and IFVs they are receiving.

Many reports indicate that prep work for receiving western planes has already begin.

Have a liberating day.

American foreign policy has been regime change.

But once that was done… there was little if any thought out strategy… as Col. Davis notes.

What was the aftermath goal? And it all worked out “happily ever after”… The End.

Fairy tales can end that way, but reality rarely does… there are consequences that hurt America.

You see these warmongers claim they are thinking about America’s best interest… wrong, they only think about their own blood lust… like a child in a sandbox, playing with army figures.

Warmongers, your days of playing in the neocon sandbox are over… you let too much dog poop get in the box.

The reason for no strategy beyond ‘Regime Change’ was that it was the supreme goal… and an assumption that the aftermath would care care of itself… it didn’t particularly matter… or because they didn’t reach their goals… now claim the goals are unimportant… or never mention the goals they failed to meet.

Remember, Afghanistan: failure.

Remember, Iraq: failure.

It didn’t “take care of itself”… and American foreign policy suffered setbacks… which are sloughed off as “cost of doing business”….

But really, it’s because they don’t want to admit any failures at all.

Think about it, Neoconservatives to this day DON’T ADMIT Iraq & Afghanistan were failures.

Considering how these weapons likely will dribble into theater, we are seeing the makings of forever proxy war.

Proxy war today, proxy war tomorrow, proxy war forever.

Is that a strategy which has an end?

Sounds like George Orwell’s book 1984… do you want to live in a never ending dystopia?

(The warmongers say, “Yes, because I want my war.”)

I’ve never seen as stupid and lusting a group of warmongers… all they care about is consummating their lust… they have no reasons… no reasonable goals, just a “crazed look” desire to win… even if they don’t know anything else.

So, they willingly are led down the warpath… they want to be led… even if that leads to disaster.

The goal expressed by many commenters, here, is maximalist… complete expulsion of Russia’s military from all of Ukraine including Crimea.

Is that realistic?

Or is that warmonger fantasy?

To Davis’s point… there is no reasonable objective short of FOREVER PROXY WAR.

Because that is what the U. S. will have with this constant dripping of additional weapons systems.

NOT victory, but forever proxy war.

See how that sells at the next election.

cruise misseles send ukraine cruise ships filled with men and women immagrants, and fight for freedom.. pleanty of room , pleanty of ships.. pleanty of avle bodies

What will they do with them?

They will kill Russians with them.
That is the desire. That is the goal.

They will kill Russians until they are pushed out of Ukraine and the 1991 borders are secure. The sooner the Russians leave, the more of them will leave alive.

Here is a plan… Bomb the crap out of Russia. Give them a treat of what they are doing to Ukraine. Why does Putin get to call all the shots and threaten anything the west does will start a World War? Appeasement is appeasement. A Predator Missile strike on Putin would be as good. Also send in Military Advisors, just like we do in Africa, (which is a waste) and let them fight with the Ukraine army troops to give them hands on experience on our advanced weapons.

Russia will win – Russia always wins

You want the world to take into account your interests, but do you not consider it important to take into account the interests of Russia? Russia is a great power! Our “Bolshoi Theatre”, older than your USA … We have the right to restore order in small states near our borders if they fall under the influence of the USA. Why don’t you sit in your hemisphere? Look at the map of Russia and think, weak-minded people, could they conquer and hold such territory? Either you will understand this and learn to respect us, or we will all die together. Russia is not Poland, it is not France and not Romania and Denmark. These – “warriors” are known to all the speed with which they fell under Hitler .. Either Russia lives or no one lives in this world.

This article is where I depart with Davis’ reasoning.

“There is no evidence that any of these questions have been considered…”

I believe all these questions have been considered, and a plan has been developed by the strategists in the Pentagon. And that plan will change from one day to the next, with the sole goal of keeping America on top. There’s every indication that Washington got exactly what it wanted in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Who am I to judge the expertise at the hands of the U.S. President. If history provides us with any evidence is that no one in Washington is listening to anyone that has a different plan.

I really don’t understand why Davis has a job. He really is not an advisor. He is not a strategist. He really brings absolutely nothing to the table.

The US and NATO have no recourse but to help Ukraine. Davis himself hints at this when he asks if the purpose is to keep the war from spilling out to neighboring NATO countries. If Russia is allowed to do as it likes that would be a huge possibility. The current world economy we all live and thrive under does not allow imperialism. Imperialism is what Russia is going for. So unless we stop Russia, it will infringe on the world economy we have working. This economy works because small countries know they can participate and make economic alliances without fear of neighbors attacking them militarily.

So it is actually pretty easy to answer Davis question on the goal. The goal is simply to ensure all countries of the world know that imperialism won’t be tolerated. The giving of the weapons itself does this. Because it lets all countries know that if they find themselves in such a situation whether they are in a NATO alliance or not they will not be left to their own devices.

That is the larger answer. But as with most things there are levels within levels. What they are trying to achieve on the inner level is not near as clear. This also however is not necessarily meaning they don’t know or that there is none. But largely strategic ambiguity. It is action and reaction to Russia. Russia has made mistake after mistake. We often hear about the mistakes Russia made in thinking they could win the war easily. What we don’t often hear anyone say is the mistakes they made in their ruthlessness. Of course we hear of the war crimes, but we don’t hear talk of the war crimes being a strategic blunder, which it really is. This blunder is what helps keep the world aligned to helping Ukraine. Had Russia kept it a clean war, the world would have tired of supporting Ukraine. So the weapons are a response to Russian blunders.

I know this isn’t the answer that Davis is going for. Davis is going for a gotcha. He is trying to tie the strategic ambiguity to no plan and no plan means a mistake a mistake means we should hoard our own money and weapons for when someone attacks us alone. I really can’t tolerate Davis thinking a bit. The selfish egotistical stupidity makes me sick.

I can’t answer Davis question on what President Biden is planning. I don’t know. But that doesn’t necessarily mean he does or doesn’t have plans. While it is clear he is cautious to not spur Russia into an existential crisis. Slow methodical approvals of weapons is a good way to avoid this.

What I can do is explain what Ukraine plans to do with these weapons and that is the more important answer anyway. Ukraine has shown a very smart military. If I knew more, I am sure I could find some hindsight mistakes. But even their control of the narrative is good. And therefore I can confidently say that they will not use them in Bakhmut. They will use them alongside the Bradley’s at some weak point along the battle lines. The lines are long and they will find a spot and take out a large swath of area that Russia controls. Separate off a large contingent of Russian troops and starve them of equipment until they have to surrender. Which will be close to instantaneous.

This huge loss will then hit Russia politically. They will have trouble explaining it to the people of Russia. Here is why I hate all Russian people as well. Well maybe not all, but pretty much all. The people of Russia are evil. They are in cahoots with Putin. If Russian military had taken Ukraine and killed half the population, the people of Russia would have celebrated. So I have absolutely no feeling but loathing for pretty much all Russians and I won’t accept that they are under propaganda as an excuse. They know they are being lied to and they accept it. Have for 20 years. Until they finally depose their tyrannical leader and pay for the mess they created in Ukraine, I will do nothing but loath them. Anyway, Ukraine wins will get them to finally do what they need to do and clean up their act, I hope.

What is the end plan? Ask Ukraine. They have already given the answer. They seek to push Russia completely out of Ukraine back to pre-2014 lines. This is the proper answer and I support them doing so.

What more is Davis looking for? Is he just stupid for not knowing already everything I just said? That is a full affirmative!

Daniel Davis is really ramping up the amount of articles on the tanks…
he must have received the newsletter from Moscow.

The United States is not a party to the conflict. Russia transfers nuclear missiles to Cuba. Russia is not a party to the conflict. Right?

@Maria

Maria: “You want the world to take into account your interests, but do you not consider it important to take into account the interests of Russia? Russia is a great power!”
“We have the right to restore order in small states near our borders if they fall under the influence of the USA.”

Thank you, Maria, for sharing your true feelings. Many other Russians in here try to hide their nationalism and pretend this brutal invasion is a noble rescue attempt, but you show us the Russian people’s true nationalistic feelings. You tell us literally this is about an attempt to assert Russia as a great power, and that as a great power it is Russia’s right to invade small states near your borders who dare to seek their future elsewhere than the so-called “Russkij Mir” (Russian world).

You also expose how influenced you are from Russian propaganda when you seek to divide Russia’s border states into Russian influenced or USA influenced. As if the people in those states are children without say in their own affairs. The proposed model you incorrectly attribute to be American influence, is rather a shared western ideal of democracy. Whatever you call it, if you see these nations as influenced by USA, then it is because they have chosen to be, not because USA have put a gun to their head. Infact, no border state of Russia in their right mind would ever, other than at gunpoint, consider joining Russkij Mir, why the hell would they? You of all people who live in Russia knows from your own daily experience that it is a hopelessly corrupt world, where the oligarchs have stolen everything and left only scraps and some BS nationalistic pride for the people. So, for Ukraine the proposition of Russkij Mir, is the great future of being robbed daily by Russian oligarchs and then the “pride” of knowing you let your self be robbed by the Russians. What a “great” proposition for them, you should not be surprised that all your neighbor states that can, have run as fast as they can towards the ideals of the west.

The part where you proudly talk about how big Russia is and how impossible it to conquer is laughable. Yes, we can all agree it would be impossible but who cares. Despite the propaganda you probably are served, there is no desire in the West to invade Russia. There are many reasons for this, but the most important is that unlike you, in the West we believe in self-determination, so the Russians should govern themselves. Even if you are doing a shitty job of it, it is the Russian people’s right to give your recourses away to your greedy oligarchs, if you so desires. So, the goal of the western aid to Ukraine stops at the Russian border, it is enough for us that Ukraine is restored its territory and independence. If independent and sovereign Ukraine chooses to join Russkij Mir, that is their choice, but I would not hold my breath if I where you.

So again, thank you, for reminding us in the west, that despite the transatlantic bickering about this and that, we at the very least share a basic ideal of democracy as a tool for an equal opportunity for all. As opposed to the ideal of Russkij Mir of kleptocracy for the few.

American General Mark Alexander Milley – General of the US Army, 20th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, previously – 39th Chief of Staff of the US Army named the approximate losses of the parties to the conflict that unfolded on the territory of Ukraine. According to him, Ukraine lost more than 100 thousand soldiers killed and wounded. The general added that about 40,000 civilians became victims of hostilities. According to the data announced by the head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, Ukraine’s losses since February 24, 2022 amounted to over 100,000 military and about 20,000 civilians. Ukrainian Ambassador to the UK Vadym Prystaiko admitted in a long interview to Newsweek that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are suffering huge losses. – We’re losing people everywhere. We do not advertise how many of the dead are military or civilian, but you can imagine that the numbers are huge and indigestible. And cities, some of them completely destroyed. Now let the armchair hawks of war refute these officials and experts.
The symbol of the coming year of UKRAINE: the sad Fuhrer ze with a candle for his repose. UKRAINE FROM SPACE AS A BLACK UNLIGHTED HOLE, ABSORBING FOREIGN RESOURCES. The phrase of the coming year of Ukraine: “Ukraine is an actress of German films for adults: she is ready to accept in any quantity from any side.” This was said by HUMORIST Ovladimir Zelensky, from the TV show “Evening Quarter”
Threat I can list dozens of countries in which the United States. EU, NATO suffered military and political setbacks after 1945.
It seems that many commentators are at odds with recent history. including, in recent years! STUDY THE CRIMES OF THE USA, EU, NATO AND OTHER IMPERIALIST COUNTRIES OF THE “HUMANE WEST” YEARS OLD, NOW ON ALL CONTINETS OF THE EARTH!

Jim,

It occurred to me that you need a history lesson in what actual ‘forever war’ means in the context of Russia and Ukraine.

Ironically, the Ukrainians just recently celebrated their attempt to fight off the Russian Bolshevik invasion of Ukraine in 1917. Notwithstanding the creation of the Ukrainian National Republic (UNR) on November 20, 1917, the Bolsheviks planned to seize power in Ukraine with the aid of Russian or Russified urban elements, Russian garrisons, and army units stationed near the front.

The fighting lasted for over three years, and the invasion by pro-Soviet forces was accompanied by uprisings initiated by local Bolshevik agitators in cities throughout Left-Bank Ukraine. Eventually the Communist forces made many advances, and On 27 January the Bolshevik army groups converged on Bakhmach and then set off under the command of Mikhail Muravev to take Kyiv.

The Central Rada prepared for the defense of the capital by sending advance forces of volunteers to Poltava and Bakhmach. One of those, the Student Battalion of Sich Riflemen, was annihilated by a vastly larger (4,000 troops) Bolshevik force at the Battle of Kruty, 130 km northeast of Kyiv, on 29 January.

As the Soviet advance continued, an attempt was made to take Kyiv through an uprising organized by non-Ukrainian workers based at the Arsenal plant. Fighting broke out on 29 January and continued until 4 February, when the revolt was put down by a newly formed contingent of the Sich Riflemen and the Free Cossacks.

Meanwhile the Bolshevik expeditionary force continued to move on the capital from Bakhmach and Lubny. On 8 February the Ukrainian government was forced to evacuate the city. Soviet troops under Mikhail Muravev’s command entered Kyiv on 9 February and then carried out brutal reprisals against the Ukrainian civilian population.

And this just one of many times the Russians have either invaded outright or used proxies against an attempt at a free Ukrainian nation.

Putin of course, is famously obsessed with this history. But Putin’s comments on 18th-century history reveal that he doesn’t even always get the details right. His allusions to the era of Peter I and Catherine II are shallow, upbeat, and focused on what academics call the great man history. He likes kings, generals, and heroes who successfully turned the wheel of Russian history. He wants to highlight Peter’s early victories in 1709 and Catherine’s conquest of Crimea in 1783, rather than the many defeats that marked the intervening years. Up to this point, Putin has publicly ignored the long, painful, and grinding process of 18th-century Russian imperialism.

Discussing Peter I on the 350th anniversary of his birth last June, Putin commented:

“Almost nothing has changed. It can be surprising when you start to understand this. Peter waged the Great Northern War for 21 years with Sweden and annexed some territories. He didn’t annex anything, he reclaimed them! Yes, truly. All of Karelia where St. Petersburg exists was founded then. When [Peter] founded a new capital, none of the European countries recognized this territory as Russia. Everyone claimed it was Swedish. But since the dawn of time, not just Finns, but also Slavs lived there and this territory was once under the control of Kyivan Rus. The same is true to the west, with Narva and his first campaigns. He was reclaiming territories and fortifying borderlands, that’s what he was doing. Well, it is also now our destiny to reclaim and fortify.”

Here, Putin justifies his invasion of Ukraine by reference to 18th-century Russian history. By changing Peter I from a conqueror into a reclaimer, Putin creates a narrative that he and the early Russian leader are in the same position. In his mind, European powers refused to recognize Russia’s rightful claims under Peter, just as the international community fails to recognize his seizure of Crimea.

Putin usually frames his understanding of the Great Northern War as a great power competition in which the enemy was the West but the battlefield was Ukraine. During the Great Northern War, the most unified Ukrainian resistance to Russia came in 1708 to 1709, when Hetman Ivan Mazepa took a few thousand Hetmanate cavalry and a larger number of Zaporizhian Cossacks into an alliance with Swedish King Charles XII. The Swedish, Hetmanate, and Zaporizhian force was crushed at Poltava by Peter in 1709. During the period of the Russian Empire, and in modern pro-Russian circles, followers of Mazepa, or Mazepintsy, have become synonymous with traitors to Putin’s vision for Russia and Ukraine.

But for all of his focus on Peter, Putin’s favorite topic is the fifteen years between 1768 and 1783 when Russia defeated the Ottoman Empire, stripped it of the Crimean Khanate, and annexed Crimea. Putin has said that Catherine achieved victory with less cost than Peter, and that he admires this. Catherine the Great led Russia during this era, and Putin seems to identify with her. Putin remembers her as a conqueror and founder of cities. Russia’s armies were highly successful in this period, led by famous figures such as Peter Rumyanstev and Grigory Potemkin. (When they withdrew from Kherson, Russian forces removed Grigory Potemkin’s bones from St. Catherine’s Cathedral.) During these years, Russia fought against an ailing Ottoman Empire. In 1690, few would have bet on the emerging Muscovite state against the Ottoman forces. But by the 1760s, the Ottoman military had grown weaker. As a result, in the 1768 war, Catherine’s armies travelled from victory to victory at battles such as Larga, Kagul, and Kerch.

Here, as in the Great Northern War, Putin’s narrative holds that victories over other great powers allowed Russia to crush Ukraine. Victories over the Ottomans allowed Catherine a free reign in dealing with the Ukrainian Cossacks. In 1764, Catherine founded a new province called Novorossiya to consolidate her military frontier, which grew to encompass Kharkiv, the Donbass, old Crimean Khanate possessions, and the territories of the dissolved Zaporizhian Cossack host.

In Putin’s heroic interpretation, Peter I beat the West during the Great Northern War, which blocked any effort at Ukrainian independence. Then Catherine II defeated the Ottoman Empire to seize Crimea and southern Ukraine. With the help of “heroes” like Pyotr Rumyanstev, Alexander Suvorov, and Fyodor Ushakov, Russian victory was always assured. In 1708, a Russian commander proudly reported back to the Kremlin, “the bandit’s den at Bakhmut is taken and destroyed, and the inhabitants have been slaughtered.”

Sure sounds like Putin trying desperately to get history repeating itself as Putin is undoubtedly hoping to receive a similar report any day.

Bottom line: you pretending it is the west engaging in ‘forever war’ is one of the most intellectually dishonest inversions of reality I have ever seen.

Gary,
Who told you that Zelensky was forced to speak Russian? This is a lie. You know that several Ukrainian presidents had to be urgently taught the Ukrainian language, because they did not know it! All Ukrainians speak Russian until they are heard, and only with Russians do they switch to Ukrainian. I’ll open your eyes, maybe – the Ukrainian language is Surzhik, in which it is difficult to explain, for example, mathematics, medicine and other sciences. This is the language of the part of western Ukraine adjacent to Poland, which is spoken only by local peasants. It is suitable only for the most ordinary rural people. Now it is forcibly distributed to central and eastern Ukraine! And the cultural, rich Russian language is banned. This leads to the stupefaction of Ukrainians! But it seems that this is exactly what the West needs.

Sam Smith, Another couch warrior.. He’s about to bomb Russia.. Try it… This will be the last act of your stupid life. Why weren’t you worried when Ukraine bombed Donbas for 8 years in a row? There is an “avenue of angels”, look it up on the Internet. These are the children who died from the bombings committed by Ukraine. Why were you silent when they tortured like fascists all people who have a different opinion? raped, robbed, killed? Are you generally able to search for information and read anything other than CNN?

@Maria
Thank you again for sharing with us how decoupled from reality ordinary Russians are. I am both fascinated and horrified that you claim that Ukrainians do not exist. From what you write it seems you remember the good old days of the USSR. Then you should also remember that Ukraine was one of the founding soviet SSR (even if it was at gunpoint). Also, that Ukrainians was recognized as a separate ethnic group within USSR. At the 1989 USSR Census in the ethnic breakdown of the population, it was reported that there were at that time 44.186.006 Ukrainians in USSR and that Ukrainians made up 15,6% of all people.
Maria, do you deny these facts? You can look them up if you want.
In any case, if the people of Ukraine insist that they are Ukrainians rather than Russians, do you really feel it is up to you to decide for them?

When you talk of Anna of Russia you are again mistaken. The name Russia derived from the Norse “Rus” and translates as “the men that rows”, meaning the Vikings who dominated areas that later would evolve into Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia. So, the original meaning of Rus was Norse men, not Slavs. But eventually the meaning of the term Rus shifted from Norse men to Slavs, who were happy to be identified with their former overlords. So, you cannot say that any mentioning of Rus automatically translates to Russia or ethnic Russians in the modern understanding, the shift is gradual.
Anyway, since you are so nationalistic oriented, maybe Scandinavia should assert their right as Russia’s overlord based on the historical records? At the very least you should consider changing you name to something Slavic instead of Norse.

It is disturbing that you nakedly threaten with “nuclear fire” and “all economies will burn” and then in the next sentence insist that you wanted to “live in peace and respect with our neighbors”. How do you suppose the Ukrainians feel about your “peace and respect” when you are murdering them and frankly do not even acknowledge that they exist as a people. It is clear from your own words that you intend to crush the Ukrainian nation and force them back in the Russian empire. If you murder enough of them maybe, they will grow to love Russia and feel more like Russians.

No one was arming Ukraine before you invaded. Now we must help the Ukrainians if they are to defend themselves from the hoard of Russian criminals and murderers you send.

As for oligarchs in the west, I am aware that we have them also. And we need to diminish their power, so that they do not corrupt our democracies as they have corrupted Russia.

In the 90s we trustingly extended you our hand and welcomed you as our equal, but you spat on it and instead turned to Putin and his dream of a resurrecting Russia as an overlord empire.

Paul, The word invasion is a problem and translation. I will try to write more precisely what, in my opinion, a great state has the right to do with its neighbors. So, I want to emphasize that I and many people in Russia, as well as the majority of my acquaintances and the prevailing opinion in social networks, still consider Ukraine a brotherly people and we recognize its right to self-determination. But the seizure of power in 2014, which was carried out in Kyiv by a US-led Nazi gang, we do not recognize. After Ukraine fell under the rule of the United States, it ceased to be a sovereign power for us. The operation, begun a year ago, became possible only because Ukraine was struck by the United States like a cancerous tumor. As soon as the United States gets out of there, we will immediately leave too. What are you doing there many 1000 km from America?

@Paul
“All nations have a sovereign right to choose their own path including Ukraine.”
specify which “Ukraine” has the right to choose its own path? pro-Western Bandera fascist Ukraine or pro-Russian Russian-speaking Ukraine?
What does it mean to “choose your own path”? to ban the language spoken by the population of the country, to physically destroy those who disagree with this “own way” is this, in your opinion, “to choose your own way”?
those who opposed the 2014 coup d’etat have the right to choose their path, or not?
“The sad part is that you guys are so incredible paranoid after years of propaganda that you are unable to wrap your head around the idea that a neighboring state could out of their own free will want something that is not dictated by either Putin or USA. ”
are you talking about Ukraine? about that Ukraine in which an American senator (now the president) can demand to remove the supreme judge from office, do it live on television, and this judge is removed from office because he opened a criminal case against the senator’s son? ? very funny. ???
PS
your maxims about peace and justice are something incredible! a citizen of the USA, the same USA that bombed the territory of 11 (!!!) countries from 2000 to 2022, tells something about justice and that big countries do not have the right to attack small ones. ? tell this to the Afghans, Libyans, Serbs and many others who were killed and continue to be killed by the United States.
PS PS
“Go back to Russia and the war will be over tomorrow.”
we are doing this! Zelensky wants 1991 borders. in 1991 the Ukrainian SSR was part of the USSR. we return Ukraine to its homeland. BUT! there is also Biden’s demand – to return Russia to the 19th century. this is more difficult. Russia then included not only the province of Kiev, but also the Baltic states and Poland and Finland. we have a lot of work to do.?

Now onto F16s for Ukraine, and then here comes combined arms warfare!Slava Ukraine.

Maria,

Not only do I 2nd everything Paul said, I would add that you have your origin theory precisely backwards. Russians are descended from Ukrainians in the form of Kievan Rus. Kyiv was a thriving city for centuries while Moscow was a swamp and Russians were still primitive and tribal.

The decline of the Byzantines, subsequent invasions by Turks, and finally the Mongol invasion in the mid-13th century upended all that.

As for Zelensky speaking Russian… he is Jewish, and Russians have never considered Jews Russian. Ever. Catherine imposed the Pale of Settlement on 4.5 Million Jews the Russians came to lord over. Before you pretend Russia is some benevolent force, go look that up, and then tell me whether you want to be stuck in a shtetl no near zero rights in the country you live in?

Long before the Nazis came to Eastern Europe, the Russian Pogroms raped and pillaged Jewish communities throughout the land…and when there was an opportunity to flee to the US and Israel, millions of Jews did just that.

Part of my family was among them. Therefore your pitch to whitewash Russian history has zero credibility here.

For all it’s faults, I support Ukraine in its fight against Russian Imperialist oppression.

Have a liberating day.

Gary, you are disingenuous.

You’ve made this false claim before and I challenged you to provide an independent source which backed up your thesis.

You failed to provide a source because nobody makes that claim other than yourself… but I’ll ask again and if you provide a source, now, and I’ll take a look at it.

And that is typical of many of your claims… you are a Baghdad bob… it reduces your credibility to near zero to anybody who is objective. It’s true enough Ukraine cheerleaders drink your slop like pigs @ the trough.

Your animus towards Russia for things that happened over a century ago has no place in modern U. S. foreign policy, today… period.

Your animus blinds you… and leaves you willing to use Ukraine as a doormat for taking personal shots at Russia… to fight to the last Ukrainian… and to use the U. S. as a tool for your personal war against Russia.

Forever proxy war is your motto.

Proxy war today, proxy war tomorrow, proxy war forever.

That’s a loser @ the next election.

Your selfish desire to attack Russia vicariously through a Ukraine proxy is undermining America economically, diplomatically and militarily… but your bias and arrogance will never allow you to see it.

Because of this war America may lose the world reserve currency status of the U. S. Dollar… that’s on you & your ilk… and it will hurt everyday Americans and American international business & economic interests.

This war is already a loser… let’s hope it doesn’t turn into a General European War or worse.

“Russian atrocities against Ukraine in the 20th century”? How can you lie like that? It was against Russia that the atrocities were committed by Germany. Almost 30 million people died in Russia.. Ukraine has always been a part of Russia and of course also suffered, but Ethnos has nothing to do with it! All the peoples inhabiting Russia and Russians suffered – most of all! Why are you lying so shamelessly?

@Maria
I believe that you sincerely believe what you say, and that you want to open my eyes, so I will consider what you say and give you something to consider for yourself.
You say that you and many of your friends still consider Ukraine a brotherly people, I believe you mean it, and something good can grow from such feelings. But if something good is to come of it, you really need to consider changing some of your attitude towards Ukrainians first.
You see, it is insulting to the Ukrainians when you say they do not exist as an ethnic group. No one likes to be told that they don’t know who they are. The Ukrainians exist for the same reasons that Russians or Danes exist. At some point Russians and Danes came to view themselves as a distinct group other than, say Poles and Swedes. It is really not up to the Poles to decide if Russians exist, the same goes for Ukrainians. So, if you want Ukrainians to love you back, I advise you to accept your brotherly neighbor’s own definition of themselves as Ukrainians.

You refer to the Ukrainian language as not a real language or at best “a simple rural language for the most ordinary rural peasants, not suitable for mathematics, medicine, or other sciences”. And you said that they only speak Ukrainian when there is Russians present, do you really think they speak their own language only to annoy you? When you say things like this, you are talking down to Ukrainians and belittling and patronizing them. That surely must hurt their feelings. You probably don’t like to be talked down to and neither does the Ukrainians. So, if you are sincere about your brotherly love for the Ukrainians, you really need to work on this.

Now the next one is going to be a bit tougher. I understand that you have come to believe in the Russian “news” about how the US-Nazi gang took power in 2014.
By the way you seem to believe I am an American, I am not, I am a European. I live in a free media marked where I can find all kinds of news and free media is protected in the constitution. Many media platforms are extremely critical of the government, but the government is powerless to close them, and in any case, they understand that if our democracy and mutual trust in each other is to be maintained, then media diversity and difference of opinion must be respected. From left to right, no serious media presented the US-Nazi-gang narrative you propose. And I can assure you that we have many media platforms that can be highly critical of USA if criticism is warranted, and would love to expose such a conspiracy, if one existed. And since you mentioned Colin Powel’s powder in the UN security council, most media here and me also was at that time highly critical of the US invasion of Iraq. But to be clear, USAs wrongdoing in Iraq does not give Russia a free pass in Ukraine.
You should know that the Russian media marked today is more or less closed if you present a different narrative than that of Putin. However, in 2014 it was heavily tilted but not closed. If you dare to look you will find Russian speaking media not controlled by Putin, that presented a different view than the official state sponsored one you refer to. You have many media, but all is controlled or subdued by Putin, we have many media, and they are controlled by many owners with different political views.
Have you ever reflected on why there would be so many Nazis in Ukraine? And why would they elect a Jew as their president?

Imagine that you were given a task, to demonize a neighbor of Russia, so that everyone in Russia would hate them and feel a patriotic obligation to destroy them. Can you think of a better way then to label them as Nazis?
And consider this: What happens if you live in a state that rewards “good” media and punishes “bad” media. Good media is media that present a narrative that fits the government’s agenda. “Good” journalists get their own shows on TV and live a good and comfortable life. Bad media on the other hand gets labeled as “foreign agent”, they are kicked out of their offices, harassed by the government, and eventually closed. Bad journalists are harassed by government, kicked out of their apartment, some even gets murdered. It is human nature to deliver the results that rewards us. Over the years journalists and media with a diverging view from Putin have slowly disappeared. New journalists that agree with Putin have taken their place. You end up with what is called an echo chamber.
So, it is pretty clear to me that of you and me, it is you who are at the greatest risk of being duped by one-sided or even straight-out fake news.

I’m sure there are Nazis in Ukraine, but no more than in Russia. I trust you know the inspiration for the name of the Wagner group?
Is it really so hard for you to believe that the Ukrainians all by themselves decided that they wanted to get rid of corruption and seek a future in the west?

You mock the US democracy, and I must confess that I am deeply worried about the future of it. Oligarchy is on the rise and trust among Americans and in their institutions is in decline. Their political system has been corrupted by vast amounts of money injected where it has no place. Still the Americans are democratic at heart. In any case, Russia’s model of authoritarian corrupt oligarchy is no model to desire and hopefully Russia can serve as a useful contrast for the Americans to reform themselves.

Gary Jacobs
“As for Zelensky speaking Russian… he is Jewish, and Russians have never considered Jews Russian. Ever. Catherine imposed the Pale of Settlement on 4.5 Million Jews the Russians came to lord over. Before you pretend Russia is some benevolent force, go look that up, and then tell me whether you want to be stuck in a shtetl no near zero rights in the country you live in?

Long before the Nazis came to Eastern Europe, the Russian Pogroms raped and pillaged Jewish communities throughout the land…and when there was an opportunity to flee to the US and Israel, millions of Jews did just that.”

I suggest we talk about Jews, Jewish propagandists and Gary Jacobs.
A favorite technique of any propagandist, including Gary Jacobs: to tell some truth that confirms your point of view, and to keep silent about the fact that this is not the whole truth, that there is another side of the coin. Were there Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire? Yes, it was. Is it really all because of the eternal Russian barbarism? No. “Enlightened Europe” killed its Jews and took their property with no less enthusiasm. As a Jew, you should know this. But if suddenly you were poorly taught at school, then I will give a short story (not claiming to be exhaustive).As far as I know, the first documented pogrom occurred in 38 in Alexandria. Then the topic became popular (firstly, for economic reasons (there are few Jews, but you can take a lot from them, and there is no serious force behind them), secondly, for religious reasons). For centuries in Europe, Africa, Asia, Jewish houses have burned and Jews have been killed. It was very profitable. Christians of various faiths and Muslims took part in this case. There were thousands of pogroms. The most famous: about 12,000 people died in the Rhine Valley in 1096, Spain and France destroyed 120 communities in 1320, more than 10,000 people in France and Spain, about 4,000 people died in Spain in 1391, more than 100,000 Jews died in Poland in 1648, a third of Jewish communities were burned and destroyed communities. Large-scale pogroms occurred in England in 1189-1190. In August 1819, starting in Wartburg, the pogroms spread throughout Germany and spread to Denmark, the Czech Republic, Austria, Poland. But that was a long time ago. And when was the last Jewish pogrom in Russia? During the Civil War of 1917-1922 in Ukraine. There were no more pogroms in Russia, because the Bolsheviks, who seized power in Russia and won the civil war, began to create a new type of society where (according to their ideas) everyone was equal. In particular, due to the fact that Jews in Russia were subjected to oppression, they became active participants in the Russian Revolution. Of the most famous – Trotsky, Lunacharsky, Lurie, Zinoviev, Gukovsky. Given the massive presence of Jews in the government, Jewish pogroms became impossible. Thus, if anti-Semitism is considered a disease, then Russia (USSR) was cured of its acute form around 1922. Although Jewish pogroms on the territory of the USSR still happened during World War 2, on the territory occupied by Germany (mainly on the territory of Ukraine). The most famous of them is Lviv, but there were many of them. When did Europe and the USA recover from this disease? In the USA, the last Jewish pogrom was recorded in August 1991 in the New York district of Crown Heights. In 1947, there were Jewish pogroms in Great Britain. In Poland, in 1946, a pogrom occurred in Kielce, which caused a mass migration of Jews from Poland. Therefore, your argument “there were Jewish pogroms in Russia” looks strange. There were no Jewish pogroms only in Antarctica due to the complete absence of Jews. It is important for Jews that Russia was one of the first countries to stop this outrage, and the Supreme Rabbi of Russia Berl Lazar said in a recent address on the occasion of the International Holocaust Memorial Day: “Jews today feel really comfortable in Russia.” And only corrupt propagandists can use such arguments. Have an educational day.

General Shinseki gave President Bush a good assessment but the White House is above logic and the law in the United States, furthermore generals who cross them fade away quickly. President Biden was warned by Obama, the military and the realists about the risks in Ukraine but he ignored them in favor of the idealologs. There is no politically acceptable way to devise an exit plan or shut off the machine now. The time for that conversation was a year ago at the start.

@Gary Jacobs, who says we are sending all this to the Ukraine:

31 Abrams [we have over 5000]
109 Bradleys [we have over 5000, and these are about to be replaced]
90 Strykers [also have thousands],
300 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers [dont use these anymore],
250 M1117 Armored Security Vehicles [dont use these anymore]
580 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles [dont use these anymore]

…and then has the gall to claim it won’t affect U.S. stockpiles/readiness??? (And those 5000 Abrams tanks, for example, do they have all the crews needed to man them?)
What, you think the U.S. Army has some secret other giant spare stash of all these hidden somewhere (Shangri-La, perhaps? ) just ready to be whipped out and put to instant use?
As someone on this site finally needs to tell you: Get outta heeeeeaaaaaahhhh!
And if some are ‘no longer used’, or of use, what the heck are they still being kept in storage for, as mere decorations? What with all the pronouncements I’ve read lately, including on this site, that the U.S. is now becoming critically short of many weapons/munitions, stemming also from attrition and retirement since the end of the Cold War, that you dare to complain ‘no problem we can easily spare ’em’ ??? Now which alternate universe are you in again? Everyone but *you* is saying how critically low on munitions and weapons we are now due to this virtually endless stream of armaments, never-ending, that we have been sending in vain over to fight this now seemingly forever conflict? You think those numbers don’t matter? How many billions did we initially spend for those items on your list—three,four, five, more? And it doesn’t matter if they are older ones, they our still ours, U.S. taxpayers still ponied up for all of them, and here you think that they can just be handed out like cheap candy canes to children at Christmas. Well, ‘Santa’, there’s just so much in our inventory bag, and that bag is emptying per just about every credible observer—-military and civilian—but you. For example, our own supply if Javelin antitank missiles is virtually depleted. Yeah, I did not see *that* cited in your list. And it will take a few years to replace them even at expedited production rates. Oh, but that’s OK, because now we have every reason to but conveniently replenish our arsenal and pad the accounts of the arms makers even more while doing so. Which has to be one side-reason why so many in the political/military establishment so ‘support’ the Ukrainians, because their own investments in the military apparatus will be padded, too. Are those investments in your portfolio, also? Please, stop handing us this rah-rah meme of bravado and brag supposedly supporting ‘fighting for freedom and against bullies like Putin’. (Not to mention that even more insidious one of ‘if we don’t support Ukraine like this, we then fight the Russians directly elsewhere in Europe’.) We’ve been there and done that in Iraq/Afghanistan, and nothing similar was anywhere near accomplished there. We can no longer afford to just send the Ukes even more of these items than we could afford to lend them our major naval vessels. Tell us, do we also just have a few extra carrier groups floating around uselessly in the oceans we could provide them, too? If so, then why does everyone think we are already hard-put to come to Taiwan’s defense if the China dragon snaps its jaws on them? All our armed forces head honchos think now they are short of what they need to fight a protracted war, in Europe or Asia–not only in materiel, but personnel, too. And ironically, they are probably right, but it likely would not matter for long if ‘the balloon goes up’. Both would get chewed up awful fast in a major conflict, (probably along with the rest of us too), but obviously you will not recognize that. Note the recent controversy over just maintaining enough recruits, and retaining critical personnel like pilots. Oh, but I suppose *you* think we have enough of them to spare and throw down the Ukraine cannon-fodder barrel, too. Which I know is what you and your fellow travelers in these comments sections really ultimately want to risk, and that is the gateway to WWIII. Well, soberly sensible-minded people *don’t*.

Serhio
You should rather read all I wrote about the danger of echo chambers and media credibility in Russia vs the West and see it you in all honesty can find some truth in it.

And yes, because we in the west have free media you will find conspiracy peddlers on the fringes. Of all the thousands upon thousands of media outlets in the West, you will only find a few on the fringe supporting this claim. This is just garbage click bate that fit the authors agenda.
If you say to me that there is ample scientific documentation suggesting that vaccines are good for public health, I can find several articles contradicting that and pointing to a conspiracy where the government is using vaccines to insert microchips in the people. I can go on about flat earth, fake moon landing, fake holocaust and so on. Instead of seeking out the one you find that fits with the Kremlin story of a USA-Nazi-conspiracy, you could dive into some of the others.
There is also stuff to be found about the dangers of echo chambers, if you are interested

Sergio, “In a time of universal lies, telling the truth is extremism.” George Orwell

Society in the west is not ready for the truth. The truth is terrible for this society, it is destructive for it. Now Russians as a nation are being dehumanized.. It’s easier to justify one’s anger by people like Gary.

Regarding the Ukrainian language .. It’s a pity that you don’t know Russian and Ukrainian .. You would be surprised to learn how the Ukrainian language was created .. They just took Russian words and changed them in a funny way .. The Ukrainian language is very funny .. And I feel sorry for the Ukrainians that they speak “this”, if only they would differ from Russians .. They become villagers with this language. It sounds arrogant but it’s true. These are really strange words and sounds .. I also want to tell you if you didn’t know that Ukraine banned the UOC – this is an ancient Orthodox church that is 1000 years old. Ukraine banned all parties that called for peace with Russia, Ukraine praises Stepan Bandera, who was an open Nazi and under his leadership thousands of Poles and Jews were destroyed. Google it .. This is almost the main reason for disagreement with Poland and Israel .. They regularly protest against honoring Bandera ..

Maria
“Regarding the Ukrainian language .. It’s a pity that you don’t know Russian and Ukrainian .. You would be surprised to learn how the Ukrainian language was created .. They just took Russian words and changed them in a funny way .. The Ukrainian language is very funny ..”

In fact, this is only partially true and applies to “modern” words. Old words were formed both under the influence of Polish, Czech and Russian languages and partly Greek and Yiddish. Everything is more or less harmonious there. It starts funny when they try to “screw” modern words that are not in the language. The principle of “distort the Russian word if only it sounded different from the Muscovites” applies here. For example, in Ukrainian articles that described the helicopter crash with the Interior Minister, I counted 5 different spellings of the word “helicopter”. From the outside, it really looks funny. It’s just an inferiority complex on a national scale.

And who in the West wants to know about it? This truth is like acid for the West, which will destroy the entire foundation on which Russophobia is based. They repeat the myth of Russian imperialism like a mantra, forgetting to look in the mirror.