Connect with us

Hi, what are you looking for?

Smart Bombs: Military, Defense, National Security and More

China Freaked Out When Ukraine Sunk the Moskva for Good Reason

Moskva
"Moskva" ("Moscow") (ex-"Slava", which means "Glory") is the lead ship of the Project 1164 Atlant class of guided missile cruisers in the Russian Navy. This warship was used in the 2008 Russia-Georgia War. The Black Sea. Sevastopol bay. This photo was taken from a boat.

China could not have been pleased looking at the sinking of the Moskva as its own ships could meet the same fate in a war: The Russian Navy’s sole aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, remains in port in Roslyakovo, Murmansk Oblast, and is undergoing repairs. The “cursed” warship was damaged in October 2018 when Russia’s biggest floating dry dock, PD-50, sank, causing one of its 70-ton cranes to crash onto the ship’s flight deck, leaving behind a 19-square-meter (200 sq ft) hole. Just over a year later a major fire broke out onboard the Russian Navy’s flagship, and two people were killed and fourteen more suffered injuries from fire and smoke inhalation.

It was reported in March that the Admiral Kuznetsov will likely remain in dry dock until at least September for further repair work. Yet, that might be for the best – because at least it can’t be (easily) sunk there. The same may not be true of the other Soviet-era aircraft carriers that remain in service around the world.

Are Other Soviet Carriers Vulnerable?

Currently, the former Kiev-class aircraft cruiser Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov is now in service with the Indian Navy as the INS Vikramaditya; while the former Soviet Navy Admiral Kuznetsov-class aircraft cruiser Varyag was sold by Ukraine to China, and completed in 2012 as Liaoning.

The vulnerabilities of those carriers – especially the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN’s) Liaoning – are now in the spotlight following the sinking of the Russian Navy’s Black Sea Fleet flagship Moskva earlier this month. The ease with which the Moskva was sunk has apparently shocked Chinese defense officials, who fear the Liaoning could be similarly vulnerable in a military conflict, the Nikkei reported.

Lessons from History

The loss of the Moskva was the first Russian fleet flagship to be sunk during war since the Knyaz Suvorov, the flagship of Vice-Admiral Zinovy Rozhestvensky, commander of the Imperial Russian Navy’s Second Pacific Squadron during the Russo-Japanese War in May 1905. That warship was sunk by Japanese torpedo boats, and other than twenty wounded officers who were evacuated by a destroyer, there were no survivors.

Moskva

Moskva Cruiser. Image Credit: Creative Commons.

Moreover, since World War II there has been only one other large warship that was sunk in combat – the ARA General Belgrano, an Argentine Navy cruiser (former U.S. Navy Brooklyn-class cruiser that had seen service in World War II), which was struck by a Royal Navy torpedo on May 2, 1982 during the Falklands War.

China Has to Be Worried 

The sinking of the Moskva has had a significant impact on the thinking of Chinese security officials, Nikkei also reported. The Moskva was sunk after being hit by two Ukrainian Neptune anti-ship missiles, although Russia hasn’t been all that keen to admit as much. What should worry the Chinese officials is that Liaoning was built at the same time – and in the same Ukrainian shipyard in Mykolaiv – as the Moskva.

Armor standards used in Russian warships built during the Cold War suggest that the Liaoning would not likely fare any better than the Moskva against anti-ship missiles, including those now employed by Taiwan.

“If that is true, it means that China’s much-vaunted naval power is nothing but a paper tiger,” a Chinese source lamented to the Japanese news outlet. Since its commissioning in 2012, the Liaoning has been considered one of the Chinese Navy’s key assets. It often sails near Taiwan, including through the Taiwan Strait. However, Taiwan is better armed than Ukraine, and the government in Taipei has recently concluded a deal to purchase 100 ground-launched Harpoon anti-ship missiles, as well as additional variants that could be fired from ships, submarines, and aircraft. It also should be noted that Taiwan also has its own domestic anti-ship missiles as well.

China Aircraft Carrier

Image: Creative Commons.

To counter an amphibious invasion of the self-governing island, it has been suggested that Taiwan could need to sink seventy percent of an attacker’s fleet. It is very likely that any PLAN aircraft carriers would be prime targets. Yet, given the recent sinking of the Moskva, and the fact that Taiwan will have the capacity to produce 113 of its Hsung Sheng anti-ship missiles per year after the Chungshan Institute of Science and Technology’s manufacturing facilities come online later this year, Beijing may want to keep its carriers as far from the island as possible. But then again, one would have to assume they know this, considering they have their own potent “carrier-killer” missiles.

Now a Senior Editor for 1945, Peter Suciu is a Michigan-based writer who has contributed to more than four dozen magazines, newspapers and websites. He regularly writes about military hardware, and is the author of several books on military headgear including A Gallery of Military Headdress, which is available on Amazon.com. Peter is also a Contributing Writer for Forbes.

Written By

Peter Suciu is a Michigan-based writer who has contributed to more than four dozen magazines, newspapers and websites. He is the author of several books on military headgear including A Gallery of Military Headdress, which is available on Amazon.com. Suciu is also a contributing writer for Forbes Magazine.

16 Comments

16 Comments

  1. Vladiu

    April 30, 2022 at 9:47 pm

    No, “reasons” are myth!
    And freaking out is never good

  2. Eric

    May 1, 2022 at 2:50 am

    To be fair, all ships are vulnerable to some extent. Anti-ship missiles and anti-tank missiles have become more advanced.

  3. Alex

    May 1, 2022 at 7:01 am

    Independent experts have already confirmed a hundred times that Ukraine could not sink anything. I believe that Ukraine cannot even sink its own rubber boat, because Ukraine has nothing else. As well-known expert Scott Ritter said: “It’s just ridiculous, but the Western media will talk about the victory of Ukraine in order to raise the morale of the Ukrainian soldiers, who are no longer there.” And I would add: the US and Britain will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. Therefore, Russia is trying to complete the special military operation as quickly as possible. I am 100% sure that the tasks set by Russia will be fulfilled.

    And now, not stupid propaganda from pseudo-journalists and squealing Bandera bastards, but real facts. Let’s see how Russia “lost”:

    In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, Russia has destroyed 143 aircraft, 112 helicopters, 660 unmanned aerial vehicles, 279 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,678 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 308 multiple rocket launchers, 1,196 field artillery pieces and mortars, as well as 2,503 units of special military vehicles. Destroyed 43.814 Bandera Nazis and soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. 3,540 soldiers surrendered.

    Utilization of US and NATO equipment is proceeding according to plan:
    High-precision missiles “Onyx” in the Odessa region at a military airfield destroyed a hangar with weapons and ammunition received from the United States and European countries, and also destroyed the runway.

    Every day, the flags of the people’s militia of Donbass, Russia and Chechnya are raised over a new liberated settlement. Everything can be seen on the map of hostilities.

    A French journalist released another film about the atrocities of Bandera Nazi bastards. The photo and video evidence is simply amazing – these bastards of Bandera Nazis only need to be exterminated, finally and completely.

    The point is that no matter how hard the pseudo-journalists try to lie, the truth inevitably comes to the surface.

    By the way, Russian special forces seized important documents from one of the American biological laboratories in Ukraine. The announcement is this: the experiments that the Americans conducted on people, on Ukrainians, amaze the imagination with their cruelty.

    I will say this: “Hello, new Third Reich, you will also be destroyed.” History is cyclical. Again the West is trying to defeat Russia and will be defeated again.

    • Him

      May 1, 2022 at 10:04 am

      Alex, you can pretend to ignore this, but all of us know this. During WW2, Soviet Russia started the war as allies with Nazi Germany. This was only possible because German Nazis and Russian Soviets had the same mentality. Thus, the modern Russians are the direct descendants of the Nazi allies of WW2.

      The Bandera alliance with Germany was nothing compared to Soviet Russia being pals with Nazi Germany.

      Why do you cite tiny little evidence – when the big evidence of Soviet Russia being friends with Nazi Germany, you ignore?

      You twist history to support your twister propaganda.

      Deep in your heart, wouldn’t you prefer to have not been a Russian? I know you feel you have no choice, but to support the country you were born in. But sometimes, you must feel disgusted with yourself, being on the evil side. Remember, your grandparents in WW2 were Nazi collaborators with Adolf Hitler. You are from that Nazi breed. Nothing you say can deny that history.

    • Rick

      May 10, 2022 at 12:31 am

      Keep dreaming!

    • LES

      May 30, 2022 at 12:32 am

      Pro-Russian propaganda will not change world opinion or the opinions of Russians in exile. The fact that Putin ordered this unprovoked attack based on his flimsy imperialist arguments published in July cannot be whitewashed. The brave resignation of a veteran Russian diplomat to the United Nations office in Geneva is a testimony to the truth from a Russian, sickened by the Putin’s despotic rule, but still loyal to the ultimate interests of his fellow countrymen who will bear the scars of this monstrous crime against their brothers in Ukraine.

  4. CK

    May 1, 2022 at 8:05 am

    Hey Alex, look at this! You’re in the news!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/troll-factory-spreading-russian-pro-war-lies-online-says-uk

    “Russian internet trolls based in an old arms factory in St Petersburg are targeting world leaders online and spreading support for Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, the British government has said, citing research.”

    “The headquarters is allegedly located in rented space in St Petersburg’s Arsenal Machine-building Factory, a company that manufactures military equipment and technology.”

    “The study details how the Russian president’s regime is trying to manipulate public opinion on social media, as well as in the comments sections of major media outlets.”

    “The analysis suggests one main activity is “brigading”, to steer attention of discussion on social media and in comments sections of newspapers towards favoured opinions. Manipulation of polls in western media was also observed, including to skew the results of a survey on whether sanctions against Russia were supported.”

    Does this look like anyone we know?

  5. CK

    May 1, 2022 at 9:43 am

    Hey Alex, look at this! You’re in the news!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/troll-factory-spreading-russian-pro-war-lies-online-says-uk

    “Russian internet trolls based in an old arms factory in St Petersburg are targeting world leaders online and spreading support for Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, the British government has said, citing research.”

    “The headquarters is allegedly located in rented space in St Petersburg’s Arsenal Machine-building Factory, a company that manufactures military equipment and technology.”

    “The study details how the Russian president’s regime is trying to manipulate public opinion on social media, as well as in the comments sections of major media outlets.”

    “The analysis suggests one main activity is “brigading”, to steer attention of discussion on social media and in comments sections of newspapers towards favoured opinions. Manipulation of polls in western media was also observed, including to skew the results of a survey on whether sanctions against Russia were supported.”

    Does this look like anyone we know? Also, sucks that they are making you work on a Saturday man! Is it that bad over there you guys can’t make ends meet?

    Does Sveta not have enough clients? Reach out man, we want to help!

    Here’s a reminder:

    If someone wanted to know the truth about anything in Ukraine Alex, the last person they would go to is you.

    Paragraphs and paragraphs of bollocks, dubious claims about “independent journalists”, random documentarians, conspiracy theorists, deluded claims that of course, have no backup, lie after lie after lie.

    Classical Kremlin troll approach. Just flood the internet, the comments, the media, with tosh, doesn’t matter what it is, just make sure you write some old nonsense. Make sure to say the claim is supported by some dude in Germany, France, the states. If it’s a “documentary” (usually from youtube) then the better.

    Anything that victimises Russia, always the victim, always the bullied, never the problem. It’s always the Nazis. It’s always some pseudo-historical point.

    Anyone that has had the misfortune to study your “tactics” sees the forest for the trees, the pattern of lies, disinformation, blanketing of random claims, deflection, obfuscation, and other words beyond your vocabulary.

    It’s hopeless Alex. Your lies are as short as your intellect. What a pathetic job, to sit in your government shed, spreading your pathetic, government lies.

    A pathetic job for a truly pathetic man. A better match could not be made in heaven.

  6. Him

    May 1, 2022 at 10:07 am

    Alex, be brave, and give us comments on Soviet Russia being allies with Nazi Germany.

    Even if you are ashamed of that, you cannot re-write history.

    You are the child of Nazi collaborators. Do you hate yourself for that?

  7. Trevor

    May 1, 2022 at 11:55 am

    I’ll leave the refuting of propaganda to others here. I’m just here to say this:

    Your work is pointless. No matter how the war turns out in Ukraine, Russia will fail.

    Their army? A joke that will never recover. Their economy? Kaput, as long as sanctions stay on. Their reputation? All but ashes, now that Russian culture is connected with a nation of murderers and thieves.

    26,300 Russian soldiers dead, hundreds of tanks wrecked or stolen by tractors, countless aircraft lost along with their pilots; all irreplaceable. And let’s not forget the Black Sea’s newest reef the Moskva, which even Russia’s government admits was sunk. Go ahead, blame it on an accidental fire if that’s somehow less hilarious.

    Your propaganda will not save Russia. After the dust settles, your motherland will lose everything. And we’ll all f***ing laugh.

  8. Illurion

    May 1, 2022 at 12:28 pm

    Alex:

    You wrote the following above:

    “Independent experts have already confirmed a hundred times that Ukraine could not sink anything. I believe that Ukraine cannot even sink its own rubber boat, because Ukraine has nothing else.”

    My response to you alex is this:

    “I BELIEVE THE PARENTS OF THE DEAD SAILORS FROM THE MOSKVA WOULD DISAGREE WITH YOU.”

    AND

    “ALEX, THERE ARE “NO” INDEPENDENT EXPERTS IN RUSSIA.”

    ………….

    PS:

    ALEX, You have posted two different posts above….

    BOTH OF THOSE EXACT POSTS, YOU HAVE CUT AND PASTED INTO AT LEAST 11 OTHER ARTICLES ON THIS WEBSITE.

    Please stop “cut and pasting” the same things over and over.

    Alex:

    If you are so stupid that you cannot create “SOMETHING NEW” to say in each different article, then you should not be posting “anything” on this website.

    CK:

    I know alex is exasperating, please stop doing what alex is doing. He is drawing you astray.

  9. Illurion

    May 1, 2022 at 12:35 pm

    Good article Peter.

    I hope you are right, and that the growing evidence that Russia is a “paper tiger” will cause China to rethink it’s Taiwan strategy.

    I would like to add, that this NEW REALIZATION THAT RUSSIA IS WEAK, may also cause China to realize that it MAY BE DIRECTING IT’S MILITARY ATTENTION AT THE WRONG TARGET.

    In other words, CHINA MAY REALIZE THAT IT HAS MUCH MORE TO GAIN, AND THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER, TO ATTACK AND CONQUER “RUSSIA” THAN IT WOULD BE TO “TRY TO TAKE TAIWAN.”

    This Ukraine war clearly shows that Russia is far more vulnerable than Taiwan.

  10. Red

    May 1, 2022 at 6:14 pm

    Hi, just a few minor corrections. Taiwan purchased 400 Harpoon missiles, not 100. (the 100 refers to the number of trucks that would carry the missiles – each truck carries four missiles apiece.) Also, the 113 antiship missiles are named Hsiung Feng (the Hsiung Sheng program is slightly different, it is a land-attack cruise missile.)

  11. mcswell

    May 1, 2022 at 10:11 pm

    The article mentions “Armor standards used in Russian warships built during the Cold War.” Ships are no longer significantly armored. That went out with the last battleship. There are many things that keep a navy ship from easily sinking when hit: training of the crew, compartmentation, training, water-tight doors between compartments, training, maintenance (including checking that those water-tight doors actually work), training, keeping most munitions in magazines that can be flooded in case of fire, plus training. And did I mention training?

    For an example where most of this went right (although the ship ultimately sunk), look at the USS Yorktown (CV-5) in 1942. It was hit by a 250kg armor piercing bomb in the Battle of Coral Sea, then steamed back to Pearl Harbor, underwent emergency repairs, and steamed out to the Battle of Midway 72 hours later. She was hit by three bombs, one down the stack putting her dead in the water. But she managed to get underway again, and steam at 20 knots (enough for flight ops in those days). A second Japanese torpedo flight had been told the Yorktown was sinking, and to save their weapons for the remaining American carriers; but when they saw the Yorktown doing 20 knots, they thought she had to be one of those carriers, so attacked her. This time the Yorktown was hit with two torpedoes, and lost propulsion for a second time, and took on a 23 degree list (for the record, that looks to my eyeball about what the list was on the Moskva in the short video). The crew abandoned ship, but the Yorktown remained afloat through the night, and was put under tow the next day to take her back to Pearl. A salvage crew managed to restore her to nearly upright. But a Japanese sub managed to put two more torpedoes in her, and she sank a day later. 141 crew (out of over 2000) were lost.

    We’ll probably never know exactly what went wrong when the Moskva was hit by two (probably) Ukrainian anti-ship missiles; it could have been just bad luck (a missile hit at the water level in an engineroom–the enginerooms are generally the largest compartments on a warship). But it’s a good bet that one or more of the above factors was at fault.

  12. Alex

    May 2, 2022 at 8:09 am

    In the meantime, the Bandera Nazi from the Ukrainian troll factory lost his voice from screeching and choked on bile, let’s talk about how the day went:

    Politico reported thousands of foreigners fighting on the side of Ukraine
    Combat-trained Americans, along with thousands of other foreigners, are participating in the military operations in Ukraine on the side of Kyiv. Such an assessment is given in an article published in the American edition of Politico. The publication refers to retired military and employees of American PMCs, who are currently on the territory of Ukraine.

    The material notes that in Ukraine, in particular, the Task Force Yankee group, headed by the American Harrison Yosefovitz, operates. He previously worked as a police officer in Chicago, Illinois, and also served in the US Army (ground forces).

    On April 29, CNN, citing the family of an American citizen and PMC mercenary Willie Joseph, reported his death in Ukraine. According to the mother of the mercenary, he went to Poland on March 12 and crossed the border into Ukraine on March 12-13. The woman noted that in the group of mercenaries, in which her son was, there were citizens of “a variety of countries.”

    The mercenaries come from the USA, Canada, Georgia, Great Britain, Poland and Romania.
    More than a thousand mercenaries have already been destroyed. About a thousand more refused to participate in hostilities and returned to their former extremist deployment sites.

    The remaining 4.8-5 thousand foreign mercenaries should return to their states, since, according to international law, they are deprived of legal protection and “at best” they will face long-term imprisonment. As we understand, most likely they will never return home. an easy walk to hunt people turned out to be a trap forever.

    Representatives of the military-civilian administration of Kherson raised the Russian flag on the building of the local executive committee in the Russian-controlled village of Chernobaevka, where the Kherson international airport is located.
    Russian security forces also removed Ukrainian signs from the building of the local administration.
    According to the residents of Chernobaevka, the former head of the village administration, Igor Dudar, fled to the territory controlled by Ukraine. During his reign, the Eternal Flame was extinguished at the monument to the fallen heroes of the Great Patriotic War, and photographs of veterans were taken from the village Board of Honor. Now, as assured in the military-civilian administration, all this will be corrected.

    Over the past day, from 8:00 am on May 1 to 8:00 am on May 2, 159 people, including 29 children, were evacuated from Mariupol to Bezymennoe, Novoazovsky District. Then people flee to Russia. Do you need more evidence of who is the aggressor and the killer, and to whom they run for help? Yes, propagandists and liars cannot change this.

    During the day, Russian air defense systems destroyed 10 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles in the areas of the settlements of Vesele, Borshchevo and Balakleya in the Kharkiv region, Kisylivka in the Kherson region, Mayak in the Zaporozhye region, Dokuchaev, Korsun and Khanzhinkovo ​​of the Donetsk People’s Republic, as well as in the area of ​​the city of Lugansk. Western drones turned out to be just targets for Russia and Donbass.

    High-precision air-launched missiles hit 38 Ukrainian military facilities in a day. Among them are four command posts, 30 strongholds, areas of concentration of manpower and Ukrainian military equipment, and three warehouses of missile and artillery weapons in the areas of Pervomayskoye and Ilyichevka settlements.

    The Osa AKM air defense system and a battery of multiple launch rocket systems in the Arkhangelovka area were also destroyed. Aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces hit 27 strongholds, areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as well as a depot of rocket and artillery weapons and ammunition in the area of ​​​​the village of Chervonoe, Zaporozhye region. Up to 160 personnel and 26 units of Ukrainian armored vehicles were destroyed.

    During the day, the missile forces hit nine strongholds and areas of concentration of manpower and equipment, as well as the BM-21 Grad and an artillery battery in firing positions. Artillery subunits hit 26 command and control posts, 78 strongholds, 359 manpower and equipment concentration areas, and 67 artillery firing positions. Six ammunition depots, up to 280 personnel and 43 units of weapons and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed.

    In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, Russia has destroyed 146 aircraft, 112 helicopters, 683 unmanned aerial vehicles, 281 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,756 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 316 multiple rocket launchers, 1,234 field artillery and mortar guns, as well as 2,563 units of special military vehicles. All this is confirmed and documented. Now tell us about 200,000 dead Russians and 5,000 destroyed Russian tanks, clowns.

    The Ukrainian authorities are seeking the evacuation of all those at the Azovstal plant in Mariupol to the territory controlled by Kyiv in order to hide the presence among the military countries.

    Among those at the plant there are a large number of characters who will confirm the presence of mercenaries, and perhaps acting officers of the Western armies on the side of the Ukrainian radicals.

    Does the elimination of the influence of a few dozen (even thousands) of Nazis deserve to put a country of forty million at risk? This is not a completely correct question. This is a question that concerns the fundamental security interests of the Russian Federation.

    We all remember the beginning of Nazism in Ukraine:
    persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church, the Russian language and the Russian media was carried out, sales of all printed materials in Russian were stopped, laws were adopted to promote Nazi theory and practice.

    The whole world understood that Ukraine is not worth starting a nuclear war, for which all the peoples of Russia are ready, but the peoples of the West are not ready. However, if crazy politicians want to try, it will be as President Putin said: “… we will all go to heaven, and you all will just die …”. Most importantly, the majority of Russians supported his words. Are you ready for war with Russia? Then go ahead and try it.

  13. CK

    May 2, 2022 at 9:15 am

    You can smell the panic when the story changes day by day.

    Day 1: We will take Kiev in 3 days! (Alex put’s on clown shoes)

    Day 2: All Bandera-Nazis will be crushed! (Alex puts own striped clown trousers, with suspenders)

    Day 3: Retreat is all part of the master plan! The Moskva suffered a fire! We remain master strategists! (Alex puts on clown shirt, with a water squirtie flower in his pocket)

    Day 4: Don’t look at Ukraine! Look at Biden, Afghanistan, Iraq, BLM, MAGA, Trump, Hunter Biden, look at the birds, Elon Musk, anywhere but what we are doing in Ukraine! (Alex puts on his clown makeup)

    Day 5: Look at all these fake documentaries, all these fake independent reporters, these pseudo-histocal facts, all this nonsense! (Alex puts on his bright green clown wig)

    Day 6: Donbas Militia will crush everyone in East! Battle of encirclement is imminent! Victory shall be ours, we swear bro, plz believe bruh! (Alex puts on his clown gloves)

    Day 7: No! We are not losing, it’s just because now there are thousands of Americans and Irishmen and Scots and god knows who else fighting with the Americans! We’d totes be winning if it weren’t for those pesky kids! (Alex grabs his clown equipment)

    Day 8+: Alex is revealed for the clown he is.

    Every day a different story huh? No wonder you clowns can’t get shit done in Ukraine, you have no focus.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

Advertisement