According to several U.S. media reports, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky will meet in Washington on Wednesday with President Biden, and is tentatively scheduled to address a joint session of Congress. The purpose of the visit is clear: to obtain for Ukraine yet more financial and military support from the United States for his war against Russia.
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Since the beginning of 2022, the United States has already provided, by far, more money and military support to Kyiv than any other single country. Before the president and Congress get too eager to give away yet more American taxpayer dollars, Congress should require of the White House a clearly articulated explanation of how any further contributions are in support of America’s vital national interests.
According to the Kiel Institute’s Ukraine Support Tracker, as of November 20, the United States has thus far contributed over $50 billion to Kyiv’s war effort. The total contribution from the 27 members of the European Union is $55 billion – but the single biggest contributing nation on the continent is Germany at approximately $15 billion.
The Biden Administration had requested an additional $37 billion from Congress to send to Ukraine, but lawmakers appear set to offer even more than the request—to the tune of about $45 billion. That would push the total American contribution to over $100 billion. Before Congress allocates one more penny of American taxpayer money to another foreign government, they should at the very least do so only after Europe has agreed to match our offer. Both the United States, Europe, and Ukraine have all become quite content to allow America to shoulder, indefinitely apparently, the primary burden for funding European security.
That should not be. European security cannot be more important to the United States than it is to European countries. The U.S. can wish Ukraine well and strongly back them with major financial and military assistance. But so long as Congress and the White House are eagerly willing to shower Kyiv with money, then European capitols will remain only too willing to sit back and applaud.
I can understand Zelensky’s desire to come to Washington to press Biden and the Hill for more money and military hardware. His country has been invaded. His need is both urgent and critical. But one truth must not be lost in this process: Ukrainian vital national interests are not synonymous with American vital national interests. In a video Zelensky made during his recent trip to visit his troops in Bahkmut, he issued a barely-veiled demand of the United States.
His troops “handed over our beautiful Ukrainian flag with their signatures for us to pass on” to the “American Congress, to the president of the United States,” Zelensky said in the video. Ukraine is grateful for the support the U.S. has thus far given, Zelensky admitted, “but it is not enough. It is a hint – it is not enough.” With all due respect to the Ukrainian president, it is not enough by what standard?
The United States is supportive of the Ukrainians and more than sympathetic to their cause. We have given over $50 billion in support, some of our most modern rocket launchers and howitzers, over a million 155mm artillery shells, tens of millions of rounds of other ammunition, tens of thousands of missiles and rockets, training of Ukrainian troops, and targeting intelligence to help Ukraine identify and destroy Russian forces in the field. We have done far more than any other single nation – many times more than the closest friendly country – and all this for a country that isn’t even a treaty ally.
In short, we are not obligated to provide anything to Ukraine. That we have given already vast amounts of money and military hardware, without any treaty or obligation for Kyiv towards us, should be considered a major effort by the United States. For Zelensky to quip that “it is not enough” – while making no equivalent demands of his European neighbors – exposes the reality that Washington has become too eager to send its money overseas. This does not support American vital national interests.
We have the still-painful experience of what happens when American financial and military resources pour into another country with little to no relation to U.S. national security interests at stake when we spent nearly $2 trillion on 20 years of war in Afghanistan – while gaining nothing for our country.
Before members of our House and Senate get too caught up in emotions welling up from a fiery Zelensky speech and commit to yet more billions of dollars to a war that may not serve our national interest, legislators should conduct a rigorous evaluation of how much money our partners and allies in Europe are contributing, and carefully consider what – if any – vital national interests of the United States are at stake in Ukraine that warrants such massive spending. We may find that its time to put the brakes on the spending and consider alternatives to never-ending flows of U.S. money to support another foreign war.
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A 19FortyFive Contributing Editor, Daniel L. Davis is a Senior Fellow for Defense Priorities and a former Lt. Col. in the U.S. Army who deployed into combat zones four times. He is the author of “The Eleventh Hour in 2020 America.” Follow him @DanielLDavis1.
December 21, 2022 at 3:27 pm
Biden needs to give or hand over a blank check to zelensliyy and let him fill in the required amount of greenbacks.
Meanwhile, austin should just open the DoD arms floodgates and let zelenskiyy pick all the items he wants to use against moscow, including the b61 weapon.
Unlimited money + unlimited weapon supply will definitely bring the current fascist-anti fascist proxy war in europe to an end. And thus spare the civilians in donbass.
The donbass people have suffered SILENTLY & IN TOTAL HOPELESSNESS since the 2014 maidan putsch. So unlike the kosovo mob a.k.a. the kosovo liberation army that had the support of NATO air forces.
December 21, 2022 at 3:40 pm
Yep, the Republican Party has come out and officially said that Ukraine fighting with 1:10 odds in artillery and with no electricity is a Welfare state.
Well that’s an american brain for you
December 21, 2022 at 4:02 pm
An interesting article with many good points. I do point out that that Ukrainians were apparently (?) encouraged to fight Russia. Perhaps back in Feb 2022, all of this could have been avoided if Ukraine had just said “OK we’ll be neutral now go away.” And possibly it could have been ended in March with a return to the status quo, and a lot less total bloodshed. If in fact the US encouraged Ukraine on this path, then it would seem that perhaps we do owe them the resources needed to see it through.
One also points out that a war is not a sporting event. How much is enough? Zelensky wants as much as possible, surely that’s reasonable on his part.
Also as regards Europe not pulling its weight, well, Europe may be looking at de-industrializing (thank you USA for blowing up the pipelines, maybe). Surely that counts as a sacrifice?
Also, while I am a little hazy on this, I think a lot of the “aid” to Ukraine is in the form of loans. Are we in fact just making Ukraine a permanent debt-slave to the western bankers? Are we giving money and arms to Ukraine directly, or are we giving money at near 0% interest to the bankers, who are then loaning it out to Ukraine for 20% interest? Or something like that? I think I have also heard that much of Ukraine’s debt to private banking interests may be guaranteed by the US taxpayer.
December 21, 2022 at 4:20 pm
History is repeating itself today.
America supporting zelensky to the hilt is exactly like germany supporting mussolini in 1941 during the italian campaign to pacify north africa where the brits and french were already present.
In the end, the german-italian cooperation failed as germany was physically too far from the region.
December 21, 2022 at 4:29 pm
Daniel once again rnaks with Lord Haw Haw , Joseph Kennedy and Tokyo Rose.
Aid to Ukraine has one of the best return on investment the USA can make. And that information comes from inside one of the world top defense contractors.
Ukraine is destroying the Russian war machine for a decade at least, it has the chance of removing Putin, It has the chance of dismembering more of the Russian empire, it has the strong likelihood of giving a free and independent Ukraine as an EU member with its 30% of worlds black soils, the 4th largest IT hub, and gas and oil and on and on in resources , all that the second largest EU nation can give. And lastly saves the USA tax payer defense dollars in future years in the hundreds of billions of dollars, as China is isolated and a solus contestant against the USA. Wake up, use your brain .
December 21, 2022 at 4:30 pm
Give them as much as they need to defeat Putin and the US republicans that support him.
December 21, 2022 at 4:32 pm
Daniel Davis thought the Russians had this war won ten months ago, and has been trying to figure out how to claim that the Russians have already won the war, despite all the facts.
The commenters here are almost all russians at this point, or people who have no idea what is going on. Only about ten percent of Republicans oppose supporting Ukraine with aid. Russia did spend a lot of money in the US buying up people like Tucker Carlson etc, and their continued desire to live in a fantasy land is pretty funny.
December 21, 2022 at 4:57 pm
President Zelensky comes to town.
The Uni-Party offers standing ovations.
Gives another $43 Billion.
A lot of Washington Generals in that crowd.
December 21, 2022 at 5:19 pm
Daniel Davis has a very small, teansie weensie brain, a Triassic reptile brain which is impervious to facts.
December 21, 2022 at 5:20 pm
Davis whines, “With all due respect to the Ukrainian president, it is not enough by what standard?”
By the standard of winning a war.
Ukraine should have had a lot more missile defense by now. As well as expedited delivery of ATACMs, Ground Launched Small Diameter Bombs, and more leverage put on Germany to deliver modern tanks. Theirs are much better suited for Ukraine than M1 Abrams.
So glad Davis topped out at Colonel, and is now out of the military. Guy has zero ability to do any sort of strategic thinking with the aim of winning… not to mention the ability to see the bigger picture in the effort against China. The more we degrade Russia now, the more we can focus our main assets on China and the Indo Pacific. Not to mention having an easier time getting the gas out of the Caspian and Central Asian region to the EU without Russia.
It really isnt rocket science…unless you are a hack dedicated to not doing real strategic thinking… and then making excuses for a policy of appeasing Russia at every turn.
December 21, 2022 at 5:34 pm
Davis also leaves out several other key factors in trying to call out the difference in how much the US supports Ukraine vs. the EU:
-The US is making a lot of money selling LNG to the EU.
A LOT of money.
-As well, just about every EU country is ordering massive amounts of weapons from US, especially HIMARS.
-Poland alone ordered 220 HIMARS and 250 M1 tanks. Those two purchases by Poland alone are about $5 Billion.
-There will soon be 550 F35s bought by EU countries. Germany just ordered a bunch as well.
As usual, Davis cherry picks information to pretend he’s right, when a more thorough look at all the facts shows he’s pretty much wrong [or at best incomplete] about every theory he has ever posted on 1945
December 21, 2022 at 5:48 pm
Daniel Davis is a potato head.
December 21, 2022 at 5:50 pm
Mr. Davis is the living epitome of Emerson’s quip “a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds”.
December 21, 2022 at 5:54 pm
I say let’s give ‘em enough weapons to kick those borsch eating b*tards back to Moscow:
December 21, 2022 at 5:55 pm
Comrade Davis…interesting article Tovarich. The US and NATO should give Ukraine whatever it needs to defeat Putin and quickly.
After Ukraine completely destroys Putler’s Military, Russia should be forced to pay reparations to The US, NATO, and of course, Ukraine.
They’ve got plenty of Oil and Gas, so they can supply The West for many years.
December 21, 2022 at 7:05 pm
The government printing fiat dollars causes the cost of living to double. Yet, salaries are the same. Stop believing the garbage media. They are your enemy more than isis and Russia combined.
December 21, 2022 at 8:13 pm
None. It is not in our American interest to give Ukraine any weapons. Perhaps sell some, sure, but give, absolutely not. Our intervention is already strategically weakening our global hegemony, and if not remedied, will create blowback in the form of the already nascent challenge to our global monetary order.
Gary and his fellow anti-American Ukrainian trolls have analytical skills and inch deep and a mile wide, and as proven by the past 10 months of their policy’s strategic failure, have absolutely zero idea what they are doing.
December 21, 2022 at 8:14 pm
Dan Jensen is about as well informed on the subject of economics as Daniel Davis is informed about what is going on in Ukraine…which is to say..not at all.
December 21, 2022 at 9:52 pm
The list of countries receiving foreign aid is long & winding.
Ukraine tops the aid parade…. but the line is long… so many needy hands out…
Carrots of the empire… but don’t worry… just the cost of doing business… who cares… it’s not their money, anyway.
Part of the price tag we pay for Empire… so the elite can play… “Risk”… and if your business is right… make a ton of money off the American Taxpayer.
American citizens, in general, they’ll get some left-overs from the table after Daddy Warbucks eats-up & burps… wiping the gravy off his chin… from the war contracts he gets… helped out by his favorite Congressman or Senator… then he returns the favor with campaign contributions… pretty cheap investment if you ask me.
Jacobs’ comment, Dec. 21, 2022 at 5:20 pm
You gotta read the full comment (and think about it):
It’s the confession of a Neoconservative.
Take out Russia… then militarily take on China and the Indo-pacific, very much a series of stepping stones… followed by… you guessed it, “Not to mention having an easier time getting the gas out of the Caspian and Central Asian region to the EU without Russia.”
Echoes of the post-invasion, ad hoc reasons proffered by neoconservatives for why America had to stay in Afghanistan forever, so as to maintain an Occupation & Pacification of Afghanistan… to dominate Central Asia… after Russia had been “Regime Changed” and dismembered… to control the oil & gas via transit pipelines from Central Asia.
Maybe, Ukraine and Afghanistan aren’t so separate after all, but rather, are related in some grand neocon scheme… as revealed by Jacobs’ comment.
There is no limit to the fanatical, neoconservative drive to rule the world… you need an Empire to do that.
A Republic… too old fashioned… too limited, too decent, too much under the Sovereignty of the American People, it just won’t do for the neocon agenda.
All you have to do is let a neocon talk… they’ll tell you what they want to do… they’re proud of their agenda.
When do we, the American People, get off this giant “Farrow Wheel” of power & control? Never… it’s a never ending quest to rule the world…
Neoconservatives never want things to get back to normal… a Peaceful & Prosperous America. No, they always want to be marching… somewhere… to war, there’s always someplace they want to control or destroy.
And they use American Taxpayer money for their schemes… and trample over dead American soldiers… when they must… because they see soldiers as hired muscle… expendable.
They use this country… like a doormat… it’s wrong.
December 21, 2022 at 10:15 pm
You have all neglected one fact. The money Biden and congress is sending to Ukraine is money taken from the American taxpayer. Why write a blank check to Ukraine when Europe sits by and does little? We have enough trouble in the Pacific and should be shoring up our resources there.
December 21, 2022 at 10:49 pm
“Before Congress allocates one more penny of American taxpayer money to another foreign government, they should at the very least do so only after Europe has agreed to match our offer.”
I think that the before we can even discuss a single penny going to Ukraine from the public treasury, what we need to demand is –
1) a full forensic accounting of exactly how much money Biden and his family personally received from Ukrainian sources/industry while they were presiding over the Nuland Cabal deliberately provoking this war, in the first place.
2) Biden himself must pony-up ALL of his audited Ukraine payments and return THESE FUNDS from his own family nest-egg which rightfully belong in the service of Ukraine.
I think that the very definition of a ‘Quid Pro Quo’ (in this case a ‘Quid Pro Joe’) =
1) Hunter gets an email asking for assistance getting a local Uke prosecutor fired or deterred from pursuing Hunter’s Uke paymasters
2) One month later, ‘Quid Pro Joe’ shows up on the ground in Ukraine, publicly demanding the firing of that same Uke prosecutor, offering a billion dollars in US taxpayer cash for the dismissal.
An intoxicated spider monkey wearing a top-hat could effortlessly make this stick as a prosecution for official misconduct.
To even momentarily suggest that someone who is so clearly indictable should be allowed to initiate additional payments to the same state that was involved in bribing his family, as documented in correspondence from the time, shows how hopelessly we have descended into total corruption with two competing political crime families and their respective media enablers, who both now openly commit any crime that suits them for profit with absolute impunity.
December 21, 2022 at 11:00 pm
Mr Davis’ unwavering support for Russia is not surprising. However, the US’s interests should be decided based on clear logical thinking rather than Mr Davis’ biased opinion.
To the western world, there are only two military threats: Russia and China. Since Ukraine is fighting to make Russia no longer a threat, it is a vital western interest to support Ukraine. With just $55 billion dollars, the US almost eliminated one major military threat without any loss of US soldiers. If this is not in the US’s interests what would it be? Sooner or later, Russia will go bankrupt and cannot recover militarily and economically for a long time. I understand the EU is not providing enough but it is not riding free. It supports Ukraine refugees and is directly affected by Russian gas and oil.
December 21, 2022 at 11:12 pm
How much? Just enough for them to be able to defend themselves.
December 22, 2022 at 12:06 am
Davis says “Before members of our House and Senate get too caught up in emotions welling up from a fiery Zelensky speech and commit to yet more billions of dollars to a war that may not serve our national interest…”
Really? Russia is bleeding talent, their best engineers/programmers/scientists are storming the exits. Their military is likely hamstrung for at least a generation, and more if we keep up the pressure. Putin goes to bed every night wondering when he will get his 9×18 Makarov bullet behind his ear.
Keep on giving Ukraine what they need.
December 22, 2022 at 2:22 am
Covid virtue signaling is over.
Now the rage is Zelensky virtue signaling.
This will pass too.
December 22, 2022 at 5:30 am
all they ask for and then some
Ukraine is paying in blood for our defense we are just paying money
December 22, 2022 at 6:41 am
Who gains from all this cash flow? Follow the money—those who make the weapons along with a swelling Pentagon budget. Most of the pressure to supply Ukraine at any cost emanates from the U.S. military establishment who are betting on a win, but have nothing to lose if Russia comes out ahead.
December 22, 2022 at 7:32 am
It looks like the expensive war effort has been a waste, despite the propaganda.
December 22, 2022 at 9:57 am
Only their arrogance, arrogance and bloodlust can compare with the stupidity of the Yankees. You will remember my words next year when you start paying $50 per gallon of gasoline..)
December 22, 2022 at 10:33 am
Mr Davis, of course Ukraine is in the vital national interest of the USA. It is the best chance the USA has of stopping a revanchist, neo-imperialist, ever more fascist Russian rogue state in its tracks.
More importantly: it is a chance for the USA to be on the sides of the angels: Ukraine is fighting for its very existence and freedom, against a brutal fascist aggressor.
Ukraine also wants to fight, from its President down to the Ukrainians in the trenches. There are no American troops there, a critical difference with Afghanistan.
This war is breaking Russia’s ability to wage war for many years to come. Its army is bleeding to death in Ukraine. Its revenues from oil and gas exports are hurt for many years to come. Its future economic potential has taken a massive hit through the sanctions, the withdrawal of foreign companies and the mass exodus of highly educated young Russians.
Lastly, Europe is doing its part. Europe is already giving more financial support to Ukraine that the USA does. Europe is stepping up its military supplies and its own investments in weapons. Most importantly, Europe is incurring huge costs – huge costs – in cutting off Russian oil and gas imports. That is a tremendous hit to Russia, but comes at a huge cost to Europe, measuring at least in the hundreds of billions in losses and additional costs this year alone.
Europe will never again choose to be dependent on Russia for its energy supplies. Ukraine will be a bulwark against Russian aggression. The Russian military will be a shadow of itself. The Russian economy will be weakened permanently. Russian fascism and imperialism is being dealt a grievous blow.
And all that without a single American soldier in Ukraine, at the cost of maybe 0,4% of US GDP this year.
It’s a bargain.
December 22, 2022 at 11:08 am
This country loves to whine about no longer manufacturing anything. (That’s not true But where do you think all this stuff that’s being sent to Ukraine and bought by other countries is made. Uhm, right here by hunreds of thousands of Americans. There’s no boogey man “military industrial complex”. That “complex” is made up of hundreds of thousands of Americans who spend money on other American’s goods and services. They guy who just bought your house for a lot more then you paid for it, or the lady who gave money to the school booster club are all part of that “complex”.
You can take off your tinfoil hat.
Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Raytheon employ nearly 500,000 Americans.
December 22, 2022 at 11:47 am
Beat the sh*t out of Russia, so they won’t intervene when we beat the sh*t out of North Korea.
Beat the sh*t out of North Korea so they won’t intervene when we beat the sh*t out of China.
Beat the sh*t out of China so they won’t intervene when we beat the sh*t out of Iran.
Beat the sh*t out of Iran so they won’t intervene when we beat the sh(t out of Russia… next time.
No judgement, one way or the other, but it kind of all makes sense to me now that I look at it this way.
Good informative article. Not my country of citizenship, so I have no comment on U.S. policy for supplying weapons to Ukraine.
December 22, 2022 at 3:04 pm
1. 1 million Ukrainian refugees in German and growing by thousands every day. USA benefiting by increase in commodity prices. Germany and Western Europe paying billions more.
How how this conflict impacted the average American citizen? Zero. Germans are aware of this. Support in Western Europe for supporting Ukraine is paper thin despite media propaganda to the contrary. This article is why support will dwindle. 90% of Americans can’t point Ukraine out on a map just as 95% still can’t point out Afghanistan. Europe is shouldering 95% of his conflict in their day to day lives and Europeans know it.
December 22, 2022 at 5:14 pm
Russia launched war not only on Ukraine, but also all that is the ‘West’ including most of Europe, England, USA, Canada and others. So, until he is defeated there will be a high cost in blood and treasure.
I suppose the USA could decide to, again, just go ahead and lose another war. I hope that doesn’t happen. Again. The ‘West’ has no choice except to fund the war unless submission to Russian imperialism and a reconstituted USSR is acceptable.
December 22, 2022 at 5:34 pm
Dan Davis is spouting the same nonsense as Tucker Carlson. Both are weak and fail to understand the stakes at play. JFK said we would bear any burden to support freedom. RR correctly called the USSR an evil empire. Davis and Tucker will be remembered as cowardly sycophants.
December 22, 2022 at 7:01 pm
Davis and likeminded idiots need to consider why we spend so much money year after year in self defense.
Since the end of WWII, the US has led the world into a new age of growth and prosperity. When the war ended, it was the United States led western world vs the Soviet led Communist world. The West wasn’t perfect, but overall countries were free to do as they like and succeed through cooperation. Communism failed because it imposed strict controls on not only individuals but the countries under its system.
At the fall of the Soviet Union, many of these vassal states to communism saw the advantage of the west and didn’t walk they ran to join it. And this led to grown not just for them but for us as well. Cooperation helps everyone. Something that stupid Trump supporters just never understood. It was all about them vs the world. And you can see them in the group that agree with idiots like Davis.
Of course, Russia felt dejected after the end of the Soviet Union. They were used to being the overlords in the Soviet Union. So while we could have done more to welcome them to a new era, they preferred to sink into depression on their loss of status. And some unscrupulous future oligarchs used this to take anything lying around. Putin rewarded these corrupt individuals as long as they gave some to him and ensured his power.
So why do these so-called patriots like Davis think that former Soviet states owe Russia anything? Why do they believe that anything Russia demands something from these countries that Russia should get it? Well, they don’t. Not exactly any way. Instead they wash their hands of it and say it’s not our problem. We should just stay out of it.
But here is what they miss by doing so. The West rose on the new world order that America helped build. Small countries could rely on safety provided by the American defense bubble. We made it clear that former Soviet states could benefit from this and we would benefit from their trade. And that is just what we did. We all benefitted. We just needed to require they follow through with our demands on how that works. More individual freedoms and tighter controls on corruption. If you look at those who criticize our support of Ukraine, one of the first things they speak of are Ukraine’s levels of corruption. funny that they support Russia who is 100x more corrupt. Ukraine has continually since 2014 worked to fight corruption.
If we don’t continue to maintain the world we created, we will fall and the successes we have all had in our personal lives will begin to fail as well as countries flee a system that they can no longer trust.
We can and should push for adjustments in the system and get these small countries to play a larger role in their defense. But we absolutely must not leave them to the wolves such as China and Russia to remake the order we created.
Too many on here believe it is time to drop the system we created and take advantage individually of our own individual power and no longer cooperate with the rest of the world. They say we waste money on defense and get nothing in return. But they miss what we really have gained by our spend. It is not dollar for dollar, it has been exponential to the dollars spent.
So I’m not going to listen to idiots who talk about how US and NATO provoked Russia and we owe Ukraine nothing. Far from it. This is all Russia looking to destroy what we have built and replace it with a Russian controlled world built on corruption where only Russia capitalizes and all its vassal states grovel for their dinner. We have an obligation not to Ukraine, but to all the western world to defend Ukraine as an extension of the western world as we have made that world an inclusive one where anyone can join if they live by the principles we defined.
December 22, 2022 at 9:06 pm
Conservative: “Dan Davis is spouting the same nonsense as Tucker Carlson. Both are weak and fail to understand the stakes at play.”
It is true that they are spouting the same nonsense but that’s not because they fail to understand the stakes at play, the reality is much worse, they actually do not want Putin to lose; they said so repeatedly using the same nuclear threats that Solovyov is using.
John R. Shanahan
December 23, 2022 at 4:04 am
I do not understand the hostile tone towards Ukraine. It as if Mr. Davis would be happy if Russia, led by an anti-Western and anti-U.S. Mr. Putin, wins this war. If my country’s vital national interests do not include aiding an aspiring European democracy’s fight for independence against a brutal, tyrannical colonizer hell bent on cultural genocide than what are my country’s vital interests? What was the meaning of everything I was taught in school and raised on: our founding documents, our own fight for independence, the Gettysburg Address, fighting against fascism, fighting the Cold War, etc? What did I pledge my life to defend when I enlisted in our U.S. Army in 1989? Was it all just bullshit to cover up crass naked greed and self-interest? I don’t want to live in Mr. Davis’ America. I want to live in George Washington’s, Franklin Roosevelt’s, and George H.W. Bush’s America. I want to live in an America that stands up in the face of tyranny.
December 23, 2022 at 7:40 am
From here on out the US should give to Ukraine $1.00 for every $3.00 the EU/NATO gives
December 23, 2022 at 10:11 am
Jack, Ukraine should get what it needs to protect itself, as for the burden of Putin’s insanity being distributed, economies of Europe are feeling it and are paying the price of decoupling from Russian oil and gas. For some of them that may even take a few years.
December 23, 2022 at 12:12 pm
God bless people in the world.
Costs of Major U.S. Wars
“This CRS report provides estimates of the costs of major U.S. wars from the American Revolution through current conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. It presents figures both in current year dollars, that is, in prices in effect at the time of each war, and in inflation adjusted constant dollars updated to the most recently available estimates of FY2011 prices. All estimates are of the costs of military operations only and do not include costs of veterans benefits, interest paid for borrowing money to finance wars, or assistance to allies. The report also provides estimates of the cost of each war as a share of Gross Domestic Product GDP during the peak year of each conflict and of overall defense spending as a share of GDP at the peak. Comparisons of war costs over a 230-year period, however, are inherently problematic. One problem is how to separate costs of military operations from costs of forces in peacetime. In recent years, the Department of Defense DOD has tried to identify the additional incremental expenses of engaging in military operations, over and above the costs of maintaining standing military forces. Figures used in this report for the costs of the Vietnam War and of the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War are official DOD estimates of the incremental costs of each conflict. Costs of post-911 military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere are estimates of amounts appropriated to cover war-related expenses. These amounts appear to reflect a broader definition of war-related expenditures than earlier DOD estimates of incremental Vietnam or Persian Gulf War costs.”
The Veterans History Museum of the Carolinas
“The Vietnam War was a long, costly and divisive conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam against South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. Active involvement in the war by the US began in 1954. Over 3 million US military personnel served in the Vietnam War and over 58,200 American men and women were killed there. Opposition to the war bitterly divided Americans, even after President Richard Nixon ordered the withdrawal of U.S. forces in 1973. In the United States, the effects of the Vietnam War would linger long after the last troops returned home. The nation spent more than $120 billion on the conflict in Vietnam from 1965-73; this massive spending led to widespread inflation, exacerbated by a worldwide oil crisis in 1973 and skyrocketing fuel prices.”
God bless America.
December 23, 2022 at 12:14 pm
That was such a well written and emotional comment by Walker, I felt I had to respond; even though I do not understand the mindset that requires the need for name calling if someone disagrees with your opinion.
First of all, perhaps Walker should reacquaint himself with the difference between former Soviet states and former Warsaw Pact countries. I believe Ukraine may be the very first former Soviet state that NATO or the U.S. has provided with direct military aid. I may be wrong. And I don’t think military aid was ever provided to a Warsaw Pact country until that country was accepted into NATO. Ukraine is a unique situation historically, so I am not sure about some of the historical references that Walker refers to. Perhaps Walker can provide that information.
Also, I don’t think I have ever read Davis saying that no support should be given to Ukraine, only that support should not be unlimited in scope. This is based on the very low probability of actually forcing Russian troops to leave the DNR/LNR and Crimea, which they have occupied uncontested for over 8 years.
I would like to ask Walker how does he square his western world philosophy of warfare with the United States campaigns in Vietmam and the U.S./NATO Afghanistan? I think that is at the heart of most of Davis’ articles. Not the full withdrawl of all support, just no repeat of previous failed unlimited 20 year campaigns.
(Let the name calling begin)
December 23, 2022 at 1:53 pm
God bless people in the world.
Think about four facts of Ukraine socialism warfare to treat people right.
The first fact is before World War II, people in Ukraine don’t obey Ten Commandments and believe socialism. Most people join Communist Party and Nazi.
The second fact is after Ukraine quit from the Soviet Union, most of them still do not obey Ten Commandments and continue to implement socialism. Most people in Ukraine don’t against atheism, so they choose Zelenskyy to be Ukraine President.
The third fact is about the Soviet revival plan of Gorbachev and Putin. Gorbachev has asked Putin to pursue the glory of Soviet Union again because they don’t obey Ten Commandments, believe socialism, and consider us as enemy.
The fourth fact is about Democratic-Republican Party. From 1776 to the present, they do not obey Ten Commandments, so they make various wars, cooperate with French Jacobin Club who do not obey Ten Commandments, then Democratic Party help Communist Party to occupy many countries since 20th century.
And most of the history and constitution education we learn are atheism, such as national interests, nation self-determination and nation independence, anti-fascism, cold war, anti-colonialism, anti-imperialism, worship of democratic progress, etc. Our atheism education is the same as the philosophy education of Communist Party and German SPD.
Since God created the whole world, we should oppose atheism, against socialism party, and obey Ten Commandments. Since God created people, so each of us is not individual nation or race, we are children of God. And King or President should be under God, just like other people.
Most people in Europe, Asia, and Africa do not obey Ten Commandments, if they still don’t confess sin and repent to God, they will make war again. It’s like ancient Greece and Rome.
But the first of Ten Commandments: We shall have no other Gods before Creator. This simple law is about everything, so we should trust God, and learn to treat people right by Ten Commandments, the justice of God.
So Mr. Washington say: morality is a necessary spring of popular government…Observe good faith and justice towards all nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all.
And Mr. Washington say: Why forgo the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rival-ship, interest, humor, or caprice?
But your argument is rational, people who believe atheism are making socialism warfare to against God, so we should obey fiscal discipline, keep spending enough money to train police and military who obey ten commandments, and realize the justice of God, because our life and property are the grace of God, are known as human rights.
God bless America.
December 23, 2022 at 1:54 pm
Neil Ross, this is what Daniel Davis has been pushing for many months now;
“There could well be significant pressure throughout the United States and Europe this fall and winter to end support for Ukraine and encourage all parties to end the war on whatever terms necessary so that the negative pressures on their economies are relieved. It seems unlikely that politicians in Western countries that wish to be re-elected are going to place the needs of Kyiv above the needs of their own citizens. In such an environment, the chances that Ukraine is left on its own militarily rise considerably.”
🙂 Ukraine, left on its own militarily 🙂
December 23, 2022 at 3:21 pm
God bless people in the world.
The belief and behavior of Ukraine government officers are wrong as Vietnam and Afghan government officers. Because we want to end the war in Ukraine, Zelenskyy and Putin have to confess and repent to God, and Ukraine Minister of Justice shall urge President to observe moral regulation, and Ministry of Defense of Ukraine shall cooperate with Ministry of Justice. By justice of God, supplies and weapons which are shared with Ukraine people will help them to stop socialism warfare in Ukraine.
God bless America.
December 23, 2022 at 3:43 pm
‘JFK said dis and JFK said dat.’ Hey, your JFK is long dead and in the ground, not too long after he publically helped bring the world to the brink of nuclear war when he could have just as well worked the missiles-in-Cuba thing out more quietly behind the scenes. The old Soviet Union is now rather dead, too. Now Pathetic Joe wants to play macho man mano-a-mano nuclear footsie with the Russians, with the help of his quasi-puppet Lord Voldemort in Ukraine (or is it the other way around?) for the sake of a silly territorial dispute between two far-away brother-ethnic countries. Our gross participation in perpetuating this conflict is not worth its corresponding risk in the least, and that risk can get us eventually all killed, certainly including the chickenhawk war-rooters that proliferate on this website. Do you prefer your deaths by blast, fireball, or radiation, chumps? It’s ultimately a matter of that choice.
December 23, 2022 at 4:02 pm
The 2023 defense budget totals $845 billion ($815 billion DOD, $30 billion DOE nuclear weapons budget). The aid to Ukraine now represents .06% of that spending. For decades conservative Republicans have been lecturing us endlessly on the need to spend ever increasing amounts on defense budgets and increasingly expensive weapons systems to guard against future Russian aggression and expansionist plans against it’s neighbors. Now comes the first moment when those threats are made real and the GOP is ready to cut and run in the name of what? A balanced budget and national debt? Where were the budget hawks during the last three GOP adminstration spending sprees that dictated ‘deficits don’t matter’ and ‘trickle down economics’ would guarantee zero deficits.
We currently have a once in a generation opportunity to knock back one of our main adversaries, without the commitment of US forces, AND without having to face our other potential adversaries (China, North Korea, Iran) at the same time in another open conflict. But the GOP would much rather give Putin the victory he desperately needs and embolden our other opponents because the GOP needs to have a temper tantrum over the level of other nations’ aid to Ukraine. Appeasement is too kind a label to hang on the GOP, though it is certainly well-deserved.
December 23, 2022 at 4:36 pm
H.R. Holm: “Do you prefer your deaths by blast, fireball, or radiation, chumps?”
December 23, 2022 at 4:38 pm
Goran: With all due respect, that is not what your quote states. Your quote simply states that public support may fade causing politicians to reduce aid to Ukraine.
I suggest you read the final paragraph where Davis advises his Congress to do a rigorous analysis of current spending, and does not in any way recommend the ending of all support for Ukraine.
“Before members of our House and Senate get too caught up in emotions welling up from a fiery Zelensky speech and commit to yet more billions of dollars to a war that may not serve our national interest, legislators should conduct a rigorous evaluation of how much money our partners and allies in Europe are contributing, and carefully consider what – if any – vital national interests of the United States are at stake in Ukraine that warrants such massive spending. We may find that its time to put the brakes on the spending and consider alternatives to never-ending flows of U.S. money to support another foreign war.”
But I guess this is all ‘fog of war’ propaganda, the ‘you’re either with us or against us’ bullshit mentality served up for the unthinking followers. You can’t suggest an alternate path without being called names and a traitor. That’s the America that wasted 40 years in Vietnam and Afghanistan. But as I said, I’m not a citizen, so I really don’t care one way or the other what America does. I do care as a member of NATO country that NATO should not be directly invloved in supporting Ukraine.
December 23, 2022 at 5:46 pm
First of all, Lt Colonel Davis wore the uniform, and he has my thanks and respect for this.
As Bur Lancaster, playing General Scott in “Seven Days in May” pointed out, it’s the people in uniform who have to take the ultimate risk for the policies of politicians. I accept that he has a view on policy and he should be heard.
He is, in the views he’s expressed here, wrong. I refer to this statement of his:
“…what happens when American financial and military resources pour into another country with little to no relation to U.S. national security interests at stake…”
Au contraire, Colonel, our national security interests are very much at stake in Ukraine.
You and many other readers may not recall nuclear bomb shelters, Nike missile bases, or the Cuban Missile Crisis, but I do. I recognize that the risk that soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen take on the front lines is shared with the entire population when nuclear war is involved — we are ALL on the front lines then.
George F Kennan, one of the masterminds of the USA’s ultimately successful containment policy of the USSR, said:
“The jealous and intolerant eye of the Kremlin can distinguish, in the end, only vassals and enemies, and the neighbors of Russia, if they do not wish to be one, must reconcile themselves to being the other.”
This has been true for centuries longer than the USA has been in existence — for many centuries. The destabilization of neighbors with paid stooges and corrupt leaders, the claims of PanSlavism and protecting priests in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and all sorts of other international shenannigans since the days of the Tsars and the days of Stalin are being played back in true fidelity by Putin today.
It is unmistakably clear that Putin’s adventure of restoring the Russian/Tsarist/Soviet Empire must stand on reasserting control over Ukraine. No other territory can substitute for Ukraine’s strategic position in the Muscovite Empire.
Allowing Putin to absorb Ukraine means nothing more than the return to Cold War brinksmanship and global struggles for hegemony. It is a return to Cold War defense budgets that paid for vast fleets of submarine missile platforms, nuclear bombers, huge aircraft carriers and their task forces, and many other extravagantly expensive projects.
Putin’s absorbing Ukraine means nothing more than the expansion of the thuggery that shoots down innocent commercial airliners, dopes international athletes for propaganda purposes, and poisons expatriot dissidents with polonium and nerve gas.
I submit to you, Colonel, that it is more wise and correct to be comparing the military aid budgets of helping Ukraine with those budgets that we’ve already experienced, rather than with what a bunch of grasping Europeans are willing to contribute, because if Putin takes Ukraine, we will only be making piecemeal defense contributions to the next Sudetenland/Polish Corridor crisis.
Let us not be like that noted statesman Neville Chamberlain, who saw no reason to get involved in “… a quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing,” choosing his battle with hitler after hitler had added the strength of the rest of Europe to his arsenal. (20% of the tanks hitler used against France were Czechoslovakian.)
This is the time to ensure that Putin’s international adventures are curtailed, and that he and successors of his ilk will be unable to continue their international hooliganism. Rather than following the example of Munich, let’s stop making excuses for the thuggery of others and deal with the problem here and now, while we can still afford to do so.
December 23, 2022 at 5:55 pm
God bless people in the world.
H.R. Holm and Devin Croft, the Conservative which you say is not as you think.
Because Democratic-Republican Party don’t obey Ten Commandments, so many Republicans, Neo-Conservative, and Project for New American Century are the same as Democratic Party, their constitution thought is the same as Nazi, Communist Party, Plato, Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Kant, Hegel, Trotsky, Carl Schmitt, and Frankfurt School. And of course the Ivy League is. All of them believe atheism.
Now we have problem.
Army need enough ammunition and transport ships. The force design plan of Navy and Marine Corps is still in serious dispute. Air Force complained few years ago that they have to cut off F-22 production because Iraq war, and now they complain about aerial refueling. Moreover, inflation causes military families to increase the necessary living expenses, as all of which, we need more defense budget.
But Democratic Party provoke Russia and CCP this two years, just like what they do before Vietnam war. In addition, the Iran nuclear power agreement, is just like the North Korea nuclear power agreement, and Democratic Party don’t wanna the executable arms limitation agreement. At now, U.S. military is working hard to complete the Force After Next, but Democratic Party makes many unnecessary challenges for military as usual.
So we should agree, let our military complete all manufactured before War Powers Resolution passed by House and Senate.
God bless America.
December 23, 2022 at 6:15 pm
Neil, since you ask, I will respond.
First, I call a spade a spade and don’t worry about niceties. Be an idiot, and I’ll point it out. If you are worried that I won’t be nice to you, maybe you have reason?
Davis has from day one of this conflict clearly stated that Ukraine should just give in to Russia. They should just sue for peace and the West should not intervene as Russia is equipped with Nukes and we don’t want to piss them off, and Ukraine isn’t worth Nuclear War over.
This has been his line consistently from day one. Did you not see that?
So if we let ourselves entertain Davis posits we should be able to clearly make the following 2 declarations.
1.) Russian world ideology is important enough that they would use nukes to support it.
2.) it’s time for the US to start capitalizing on the world order we created.
My last comment really was aimed at debunking the second declaration. That idea is one that may have been around before Trump, but he took it to extreme levels and the right followed like hungry dogs. Forget that before Trump, Republicans always pushed for huge military spendings. It still is a difference between seeing a strong military as just an American advantage vs a strong military as being an advantage for everyone.
So let’s go back to my first declaration. Why does Davis and people like Tucker believe that Russia is willing to use nukes to bring about the new world order with Russia as its lead as Putin said specifically recently? Are they really willing to use nukes to get that? I am far from convinced. Nukes are an existential threat. If you determine to remove my existence, I will ensure you cease to exist as well. That is the underlying declaration of the use of nukes. Putin admits this as well.
Now, if we block Russia from creating its new world order of returning to a power it had during the time of the Soviet Union, is that really a threat to its existence? Of course not. So why do we think that Russia must have its sphere of influence and its buffer from NATO?
Let’s assume for a moment that Ukraine joined NATO and let’s assume that NATO had designs on Russia. So NATO sends an army into Russia from Ukraine just like what Russia did to Ukraine. What happens? We crossed the line of existential threat I told you about. Russia uses nukes and we all die. Pretty stupid right? We can guess the outcome of this so why would we do that? We wouldn’t. So Ukraine even in NATO doesn’t cross the line, it isn’t until NATO attacks Russia that we cross the line. NATO could attack Russia with or without Ukraine. But doing so would be suicidal either way. So what difference does it make?
If you look closely, this is the exact line the US has been careful about not crossing in its military aid to Ukraine. We want Ukraine to be able to defend its land. But we really don’t want Ukraine to be able to strike into Russia. We don’t want Russia to actually think we have designs to take Russia down.
So the Biden administration has shown they understand where the real red line is. Why don’t people like Davis? Why do they fall for Russian words instead of looking at the reality of the situation? Why do they trust the words of a Despot lying Tyrant like Putin over simply deductible realities?
I have been stuck with the obvious conclusion that they don’t have the faculties to make these simple deductions. In other words, they are either idiots or worse.
Ready now for me to make clear deductions about you?
December 24, 2022 at 6:32 am
Like I said, I don’t really understand the ‘shoot the messenger’ mindset, but go ahead if that’s what makes you feel secure.
I have no real issue with your argument, it was well stated. I see at the heart of this discussion for you is this fear you still have of Russia, which is not shared by myself, or being presumptuous, by Davis.
I don’t know where you are getting these statements about Putin wanting to create a new world order. Please share them if you have access to their source.
I see the modern Russia as a country that has adopted capitalism and democracy, albeit with a higher level of corruption than many in the west find acceptable. Same for their legal and political systems(their constitution was written by americans), certainly not up to the same levels as many other European countries, but overall, far from the old communist system but admittedly still a somewhat totalitarian state with a single despotic leader. I don’t see a new Russia boasting about creating a new world order…based on what type of system, I do not know. But Walker, you obviously do seem fearful of this happening.
I see an aging Russian leader, nearing the end of his term, wanting to create a legacy for himself by reintegrating former Russian speaking soviet union citizens back into the borders of Russia. I don’t see any ambitions to re-occupy former Warsaw pact countries and I don’t see Russia as a military threat to NATO or Europe. You obviously do and you also perceive Russia as more of a threat to the world order created by the U.S.. I don’t.
Now as far as Russia seeing NATO as a threat, this is largely based on NATO stating in the past that it would not seek membership for former soviet states (again, not referring to Warsaw pact countries). So NATO lied. Which is okay, because Russia also lied to Ukraine about maintaining the territorial boundaries of Ukraine. Geo-politics, countries and their leaders lie sometimes…all the time.
Try to put yourself in the boots of a Russian. Try to draw an anology to Russia putting missiles on the island of Cuba. Maybe someday, Russia would feel secure and trusting enough of the west to have Ukraine as a member of NATO, but that does not seem to be the case under the current leader (and remember, for good or bad, he has the support of a higher majority of the populace than your current leader does). It’s kind of irrelevant anyway, as NATO membership for Ukraine will not happen in our lifetime.
But in your eyes this is still a good opportunity to bloody Russia for past bad deeds. Fair enough. Adopt the mantra, “victory, only victory”, and convince yourself that Ukraine can forcibly remove every Russian soldier from its soil.
Others will argue that there is no strategic interest in doing this for the United States or Europe. That realistically, Russian forces will never be driven out of the LNR/DNR or Crimea. No one, even Davis, said that the use of battlefield nuclear weapons had anything but the smallest chance of ever being deployed, so it’s really not part of this argument.
And when I read your comment again, I think you and Davis actually have a lot in common. Neither of you want to poke the bear, too much, where Russia would feel threatened and retaliate with nukes. Common ground. Except you want to continue providing weapons to Uķraine as long as they want them (when every russian is driven from Ukraine), while Davis wants to slow down deliveries and negotiate a peace deal which likely would include ceding territory to Russia…because there realistically is only a very slim chance that Russia will relinguish control over Crimea and the LNR/DNR.
I suspect Davis’ prediction of the future has a higher probability of coming to pass than yours. I really think he has a better understanding of military strategy and logistics than the average reader, and you. But hey, the majority of predictions end up being wrong. And if your prediction comes true, we should have 20 more years to watch the conflict and to comment further on it.
December 24, 2022 at 8:23 pm
I got a real kick out of your comment.
You are too coherent to be delusional, but your opinions have no basis in reality. That leaves only one conclusion.
But before we get to that let’s go over a few things you say.
You see Russia as a capitalist democracy. Yeah, no one sees that. For this alone, you are either delusional or lying. Christian Conservatives may agree with that sentiment, but not really. It’s more like they go along with it because Putin does what they wish they could do. But you don’t seem to talk about what is important to these type of peoples.
You also asked where I got that Putin said he was creating a new world order. He said it in a speech on October 27 at Valdai when he called on other countries to join Russia in a new multipolar world. I would be interested to see how you spin this. But there really isn’t any need.
You also accuse me of being afraid of Russia while you and Davis are not. Which is funny since, I would put them in the list of possubilites that could kill us all. Am I afraid of earthquakes or car accidents or getting cancer? they are all possibilities and I could die from them, but to be honest, I wouldn’t say I’m afraid of them. In the same way, I’m not afraid of Russia. In a conventional war, it is now clear US and NATO would absolutely destroy the Russian military in absolutely no time. Faster than we took out Iraq. It is Nukes that we should be afraid of. Russia tries to do the crazy Russian thing you can’t ever be sure about what they will do. It if you dig deeper, It is pretty clear they understand the rules of logic just as we all do. And yet it has been Davis that from the beginning said that we need to negotiate peace between Russia NTA Ukraine to avoid it spilling out of control. So he is clearly under the false opinion that Russia would use nukes to get its new empire. He sees it as better to let Russia regain their empire than risk nuclear war. But when does giving a bully your milk money save you from giving them anything more? He is wrong and plainly an idiot for it.
Are you an idiot too? I’m not sure that is how I would label you. Yet.
You go on and try linking what you call my fear of Russia with what you call as basically a foolish desire to see Russia fail and pushed out of Ukraine which you say will never happen. Of course you may be right. But why is this so key to you? In fact I wonder what your real goal is.
Mine is simple. I am not only not afraid of Russia, like you said. I’m here to convince others not to be afraid. Russia is on the edge of collapse. Chances of Putin being alive by this time next year are probably lower than 5%. Russia can’t continue this war another year. They just can’t.
So let’s go back. What are you? Are you an idiot? Davis is an idiot, not because he is stupid. He is an idiot because of fear. He tries to hide it in words about it not being in US interests but that is easily countered. Are you afraid? I surely don’t get that from your comment. Again what are you. I’m confident I do know. And I know the reaction I will get so let me preempt you.
“You are calling me a Russian? How cliche, can’t beat my logic, so you reduce to name calling.”
Let me remind you what I said before. I call a spade a spade. I think we are done now. Oh wait, no we aren’t. I kept asking if you are an idiot. The answer to that question is yes. You are an idiot Russian. Idiot, because you thought you could trick me. Idiot because you support a murderous evil regime.
Now I know you are unlikely to avoid the temptation to respond. If for no other reason than that you believe you need to leave a comment to refute my assertion to anyone else who comes along. But you already failed. Sure you can convince others you aren’t what you are. But it won’t matter. People who believe you are also idiots. Really anything you say after this will make you look worse. I would like a good lawyer advise you to shut up. But I don’t think you are smart enough to do so. But if you think you can try to engage me again. You should get that out of your head now. There is nothing you can say that would do that. I have anticipated any comment you could possibly make and so anything you say will make me laugh, but not surprise me. I won’t respond to you again. At least to the calling of Neil. In fact, I’m not coming back to even see your reply. It is no longer worth my time.
December 25, 2022 at 11:25 pm
As long as Biden is in power, Ukraine will milk the United States the same way a milkmaid milks a cow. Because all the documents about Hunter Biden’s corruption ties are in Kiev. It doesn’t matter what you all think about your billions. They are no longer yours. The blackmailer comes to Congress, where they kiss his hands. It’s good that not other parts of the body. He explains with the air of an owner that he needs more money and weapons. If he doesn’t get what he wants, then papers may appear that will sink the Biden family. So America will pay, pay and pay. And the tail will wag the dog.
December 27, 2022 at 4:25 pm
The sad, ugly truth is that the world will be better off if the Russians win. I pray that victory will be so complete that even the masters of deception that run our country will not be able to hide their failure.
The hope, of course, would be that the consequences of this failure of diplomacy, policy and ability will be enough to cause Americans to finally repudiate the Uni-party and it’s warfare state, along with our own oligarchs and demand policies and leadership that serve the interests of Americans and the world.
The only reason for this war is deranged thinking that possesses a class of people who infest our policy apparatus. People like Sullivan, Nuland, Vindman (the inter-agency man).
More and more it seems like the Russian attitude is, “send whatever you want and please keep encouraging the AFU to continue attacking”. They think this because they see the real war is on the economic and currency fronts.
The 1.7 trillion dollar spending bill hustled through congress at the last minute, in the true spirit of democracy, to deny the new congress any say, will help hasten the day when the world takes away our credit card.